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Volvo engines
I’ve seen that most (well alot anyway) of these have the Volvo engines. So far, EVERYONE I’ve spoken to (trucking business) says to stay away from them because of no avail tech’s and parts hard to get. It is hard to swallow that they are so bad as I don’t think multi million dollar machines wouldn’t put junk in them…….what say ya’ll?
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22 Replies
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The bulk of Prevosts will have Detroit Series 60’s and they are reliable and time tested. Prevost went to the Volvo engine sometime around 2010, others may have a more accurate date.
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jct55, I too, had that concern as we are getting ready to take delivery of a new Prevost Liberty Coach.
Recently, we have taken at least three cross-country trips from TN to CA and back in our current coach and in just taking the car. The volume of Volvo trucks is amazing. It is obvious that Fed Ex has a major investment (lease or purchase) of Volvo trucks. And, they look like brand new trucks.
Once you notice it, the trucks coming towards you on the freeway/interstate with the cross member in the grill is very noticeable.
I will be very dissappointed if there are issues with the new Volvo. My thoughts are since it’s been out about 4 years in Prevosts, that they should have any bugs worked out. Volvo is such a huge truck company, I hope that they have a handle on the new application into the Prevost chassis.
MM.
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I would trade my Series 60 for a Volvo any day of the week.
I did hear some infancy issues but lately have not heard any negative comments. Now that they have an engine past the infancy stage and presumably delivering good service the Volvo is much quieter than the Series 60. That was immediately noticeable when we did a rear start at Prevost Nashville on a coach with the Volvo. It is supposed to deliver improved mileage and I have heard nothing to dispute that. The emissions system is a little different than the Series 60 and there is significantly less EGR.
The engine has a very flat torque curve and peak torque is at a much lower RPM than the S-60. The S-60 torque curve is a bell shape with it increasing to the peak and then dropping off. I cannot remember where the peak is but it is significantly higher than that of the Volvo. The Volvo torque is higher than the S-60, but it reaches peak very early in the RPM range and then stays at that peak for a range of several hundred RPM which means the engine is going to pull hills far better than the S-60.
Volvo engine has taken advantage of the fact it was developed for the emissions standards instead of coming to the table with a fixed design and then having to be modified to meet standards. I don’t think having a Volvo engine in a coach is a bad thing. In fact I see it as a step up.
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Volvo engine may be well sorted now, but it still has EGR, DPF and SCR.
Jon, why would you want a Volvo when you have literally the best Diesel ever built. Literally all new gliders being built today have non egr 12.7 series 60’s in em. For a reason, most efficient, reliable, good power and parts and repair can be had nearly anywhere relativly cheap!
Obviously no choice now in a Prevost, but I think the pre egr 12.7 is about as good as it gets!
Mark, I would not worry about the Volvo, sure it will be ok, and you will have warranty! The main issues with the newer emissions engines is when they develop issues sometimes few people know how to fix them and make them run right, especially as it pertains to the EGR and regens on DPF etc.
On a coach, maybe no big deal, in a otr truck even if it is under warranty, it is sitting in the shop and not making revenue.
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The reason I would prefer a Volvo is because I have a 14L EGR engine. If I could go backwards and get a 12.7L able to push my 53,000 up a hill that would be my preference, but the reality is that our coaches gained so much weight over the years the 12.7 doesn’t have the power needed.
So based on the fact the Volvo is more fuel efficient and has a higher torque rating and has a flat torque curve and is very quiet, it wins over the 14L.
There is no doubt in my mind that the 12.7 engine when installed in a 45,000 pound conversion is the best possible combination of power and economy.
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A lot of talk about the Volvo engines in the Prevost entertainer buses on the F/B group those guys are not happy campers leaseing a bus for 15 grand a week and they are in the shop.
For a RV that should not be a problem it’s not like you are running 10,000 miles a month like the truckers and entertainer A lot of Volvo trucks are on the road with the ISX Cummins not the Volvo engine the Cummins is a 6000 dollar upgrade or option whatever you want to call it
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FWIW, Last Sept. while at Prevo Nashville, There were 3 X3 entertainers all with the top ends of their motors off. Just saying.
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Jon, Kevin Rutherford and Bruce Mallenson (pittsburg power) said Detroit actually made a non egr 14L for a very short time. Not sure if you “fixed” your EGR or not, but there is obviously a way to eliminate it on your coach. In trucking world ditching EGR is said to be .5 to 1 mpg, and better for the engine etc. Plug and play ways to get over 700 reliable horses out of the 12.7 or 14L.
I am sure that the Volvo is probably a quieter engine and perhaps maybe smoother than the Detroit but nowhere as easy to mod and reliable as the Detroit, not to mention easy to get worked on anywhere.
Anyways, not knocking the Volvo, ALL the oems had big problems, ISX cummins, acert Cats, DD15 etc issues with EGR and DPF etc etc. There is a big reason why people who do not have to run California are looking for pre emission trucks or building gliders.
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“building gliders” … what’s a “glider”?
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As in Glider Kit…a new cab and frame rails that you install your old running gear into. Basically an updated truck for less money.
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Huh … so the body and frame wears out before the engine, trans, and rear axles?
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You get a basically brand new truck from Freightliner, KW etc, just no engine or trans. Options are limited due to wiring I think, maybe one or two models from each oem. Install your pre egr engine (most likely just rebuilt) and the truck is EPA compliant not on the year of the truck, but the engine.
I think they also save on federal excise tax…more info here
We are lucky that as motorhomes we can go in and out of california without emissions. I think all commercial trucks need to be at least a 2007 or newer right now to go into CA.
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G-man,
I have looked at the claims of Pittsburgh Power and I have been messing with my EGR as I have mentioned. I am now in another phase of my efforts to save fuel, maintain or increase power but with the emphasis to be on reliability.
Tuners can squeeze a lot of HP out of any engine we have installed in our coaches, but despite claims to the contrary a lot of information from those folks (all of whom are selling something) is either a bit of stretching the truth or only part of the story, or an out and out lie.
I am using large blocks of miles of consistent conditions to evaluate each change, and I am only making one change at a time. So I already have determined if the EGR is not functioning, and in fact is physically blocked we are going to see a .3 MPG improvement. I have an extremely hard time believing anyone that claims improvements in the 1 MPG range. As to claims of greatly increased HP thaty might be true but it is a half truth. If anyone such as Prevost installs an engine in their chassis and then expects the engine manufacturer to provide warranty service for that engine they have to prove adequate cooling capacity because HP creates heat. It creates so much heat that getting rid of that heat is a serious engineering challenge.
It is my understanding that as the switch was made to the Volvo that Prevost spent in excess of $1,000,000 in development costs to design the cooling system needed to handle the HP created by the Volvo engine. The point being our electronic engines are going to need a cooling system of sufficient capacity to reject the heat created when the engine is operating at its full HP potential, and if the cooling system cannot remove that heat the engine controls will start removing HP.
All of our engines will de-rate themselves if we push the temperature limits. When we approach or hit the temperature that has been programmed as the max the engine will see reductions in power. If the temperature falls power is restored, but if the temperature continues to climb the engine will shut down.
So when I need power the most, such as when pulling a steep hill on a hot day unless the engine cooling system has been designed to handle the heat created all that extra HP is nothing more than bragging rights and is available for limited length drag races.
The 700 HP a tuner can provide might be great on a conventional truck where there is ram air going through the radiator, but it is not reality on a coach where the cooling system does not have that advantage.
I am aware of 14L engines that have no EGR, or which have had the EGR removed, and the turbo changed from a multi speed turbo controlled by the V-pod replaced with a single speed larger capacity turbo. Ultimately that change, combined with reprogramming of the DDEC which involves timing, fuel delivery, etc. may be what it takes to improve power in a Series 60 Detroit while delivering better fuel economy.
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Jon, all good points. I assume everyone understands with more power comes responsibilty, driving a modified Detroit with more power smoothly should result in better mpg. I experienced this with my Duramax, hotter tune, driven easily produced better mpg.
Heat is a concern I have, interestingly I have been doing a lot of reading on the Borg Warner non wastegate Turbo and manifolds that will drop EGT’s.
I suspect most of the Volvo heat is all in exhaust aftertreatment and EGR. No debate that the OEM’s starting building bigger engines to handle the heat and stress from EGR, DD15 DD16 etc etc.
Other than heat my biggest concern would be the Allison, but seems to be that the HD4000MH is rated for 650Hp and 1950 ft. lb Tq…hmm.
Anyways, my biggest goal is better mpg and then maybe slightly better power for pulling on hills.
I know few here will run the miles myself or Peter may do in a year, but I think payback on some engine mods can come quite quick.
Going to do a bunch more research before I start modding anything.
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Don’t you and Peter have pre-EGR engines, and if so you are basically limited to some changes to DDEC for things like fuel and timing, and on the mechanical side to things like getting more boost via a different turbo?
Your statement about HP is on the money. The thing everyone needs to understand is you only pay for the HP you use. My most economical vehicle is my 505 HP Z06. It has delivered 32 MPG on the highway, and its lifetime average as a daily driver is in excess of 24 MPG. Despite its stingy fuel burn it will still deliver scary fast acceleration and speeds (at which point the fuel mileage goes in the dumper).
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