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What does “Well Maintained” mean?
If I had a dollar for every time I heard or saw the phrase “well maintained” applied to a coach I would be able to buy Nancy that two slide coach Tom will not buy for her.
It seems like everyone selling a coach claims theirs is well maintained. In discussions between owners it seems common for all owners to consider their coach maintenance to be excellent. Buyers, especially first time buyers can fall victim to thinking there is a correlation between a coach that looks really nice and one that has had all the required maintenance. Many time coach owners on this site and others will post that they take their coach to the converter, or Prevost or ETLC for its annual oil change and other maintenance and suggest that is all a coach needs to be “well maintained”.
It is not. There are exceptions if the coach has been driven rarely, but if a coach is averaging 10,000 miles per year and it gets a comprehensive maintenance event annually, it has already exceeded the Prevost maintenance schedule.
A very detailed annual maintenance event is a very good thing. It is even better if the maintenance met or exceeded the schedule recommended by Prevost, the generator manufacturer, the converter, etc. And to be sure if someone is actually keeping track of all maintenance and anticipating when items are due, such as fluid changes, filter changes, hoses, belts, tires, batteries and common items that age that is even better.
Maintenance can be according to a schedule, but it can also be “preventive” in which items are replaced due to their age and not when needed. The preventive description means you will not wait for a failure but will change out items to prevent what might be an unexpected failure. The Prevost schedule for maintenance lists some items as requiring preventive maintenance (brake chambers for example) and is silent on other items (air bags).
No maintenance program is worth a penny unless it is documented. Nobody can keep track of what is needed on our coaches because there are so many items to take care of, but also because nobody can remember when something was done without a record. The documentation can take any form, but it should provide a record of when something was actually done, plus something to note when maintenance is due.
Or am I being overly concerned about the over use of the phrase “well maintained”?
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21 Replies
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I believe the abuse of “well maintained” dilutes its meaning to meaningless. If we ever sell ours, I will say that the records speak for themselves, and the buyer will decide as to the goodness of the maintenance.
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Agree with Dan – a coach that is for sale and has been/is described as “well maintained” means almost nothing. But by contrast…I’ve never seen or heard of anyone selling anything and saying “we really ran the crap out of it!!”. When it comes time to put our coach on the market, we’ll most likely do as Dan suggested…the receipts and records we’ve kept indicate we were pretty serious about the operational maintenance as well as the preventive maintenance aspects of our coach…but in the final analysis, it’s up to the buyer to educate himself, and determine what he is looking for and what he feels comfortable with.
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I’d consider the words wel maintained with the same grain of salt as
Very clean
custom
garage kept
upgraded
rare
hard to find
Triumph editionall these descriptors don’t mean a thing anymore. It’s a bummer…. but it’s where we are now. All you can do is see it in person and try to gauge the person and see if there is any support documentation. Then make your best guess. And try to get an inspection by the right person. Then…. cross your fingers because even then it’s a crap shoot!
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I actually think a lot of coach owners do a decent job of maintaining their coaches. I have spent time looking at coaches at various service locations and most look decent from a mechanical perspective. What cannot be seen however may prove me wrong. An oil change and annual grease job is not good maintenance. There is so much more that can play a large role in the quality of the coach. Ignore coolant changes and the engine is in danger. Don’t maintain the air system and thousands of dollars might have to be spent to restore it.
I know I cannot keep track of when anything is due on my coach unless I look at the records. There is just too much and while I can defer a whole lot of what I do I also know it will come back to bite me. And the devil is in the details. I have been bitten by a failed air bag, failed hoses, bad brake chamber diaphragms, etc.
I had to deal with other people’s errors such as damaged threads on a transmission oil pan. All of those things have greatly influenced my decision to be pro-active in maintaining the coach and I have been aggressive for the last 15 to 20 years and I actually think it is cheaper in the long run to stay ahead of the coach’s needs.
But none of my maintenance work is worth anything without the documentation, not only for the time I consider selling the coach, but as my reference source when scheduling maintenance events. It does upset me when I see or hear the terms “well maintained” or “serviced by Prevost” or “needs nothing” and ther is not a shred of documentation to support the claims.
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Well I think I will chime in hear about well maintained these are the things that I think make a well taken care of coach this is not in order just things I have done in two years
New inverters magnums
New air dryer hole thing not just filter, with new governor in it
new drive and steer tires
New wheel balancers
new blind motors
New head hunter tank monitor panels
New over the road clutch for compressor
new koni shocks all around
new brake chambers
new tag lift chamber
new wood floor in salon
redo all grout in shower
new hoses for webasto to heater in water bay and hot water tank from motor
new webasto hole unit
new muffler and tip
new hot water tank
new stainless black tank
alll new verse valves for black and grey valves and ram to open valve
new gen fans
all fluids changed at the right time
new rear end the hole thing
new seals drive and tag and new stemcos
new tires
all new front end parts and alignment
new head lights updated
new sat dish and dome
new drives seat
all fittings under bus comp fittings
all new brake calipers and shoes
ball valves on all house fittings
new fuel pump on gen
all new bushings on steering parts front and back
valves adjusted
new racor filter for motor
new windshields
all delam done top and bottom stainless and panels in between Windows
all new flex strips on window awnings and new canvas and pull tabs
New Allen bradly computer boxes
all,delam done on stainless and On top between Windows
new crestron box in back
new fuel line from fuel filter to back of head of motor
new updated starter
all new R12s and R14 valves
new check valves
new belts
new mini air bellows at motor
new door latch and handle
all new air bags front to back
all new norgrens
new fan clutch
new vanner 100 Walt for house and two new computer back up batteries
New house batteries and gen batteries and chassis batteries
all new compressors for fridge and freezers fans for sub zero fridge and freezer
new timer for head hunter toilet
all new drain cocks on all air tanks
New red dot heaters inside coach for webasto heatersThis is off the top of my head what I have done for a well maintained coach!!!!!!
For dates and more details I would have to go to my maintanence log!!!!! -
Since I’m a newbie I am probably way off in my observation but in reading Peters post and seeing the long list of things that he has done to the coach, “Well Maintained” is not what comes to my mind. Since so much was done in such a short period of time I wonder – why? To me I t is more in the realm of a restoration than a list of maintenance items. The need for records is not any less important in either case if you are selling the unit but the biggest difference would be the condition of the unit when the extensive work was first started. I’m sure that the coach is out of this world and a great buy and can and should command a premium for the right buyer.
Just a newbie’s opinion.
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First, Peter has a coach that is 13 or 14 years old. He does all the routine maintenance required. But because he uses it to do his clinics on horsemanship and he has a schedule to meet reliability is vital. He also tows a horse trailer and if he has a problem he also has concerns about the safety of his horse. We who tow can just unhitch and we have a set of wheels. He cannot so if he needs a tow he has added complexity because of his schedule and his horse.
His list is over the top because some things can be taken out of context. For example he had service work done on a leaky seal on his differential by Prevost. The work was not done correctly and he was stuck with a coach he could not drive. Prevost had a differential in stock and determined the only way to get him on the road quickly was to give him that new differential. It was just a seal and the use of a new nut, properly torqued would have taken care of the problem, but instead he ended up with a new differential.
Put the other replacement parts in proper perspective. At 13 to 14 years of age they may continue to work perfectly for decades, but maybe not. Since Peter places such a great need on his coach’s reliability he changes things none of us would change routinely. Other items were changed because he knows internal rubber parts age and at some point the part starts to leak or become unreliable. Other items were changed in their entirety because while they might be able to be rebuilt, such as his entire air dryer, time is also a factor so he opts to replace the entire device.
But there are things that make sense to change as preventive maintenance. Batteries, tires, air bags, brake chambers, relay valves, Norgens, etc all will age and it just makes sense if you want a trouble free coach to just replace them. The bottom line is Peter spent serious money, but he is done spending for a long time. That coach is like new mechanically and it is unlikely that other than fluid and filter changes that he will encounter any needed repairs.
He is on the road but if I have mis-stated things he will probably post to set the record straight.
If anyone is looking for a coach this coach is for sale. I think it was posted elsewhere.
Whoever buys it will pay a little more than the average price of a coach of that age, but they will have a coach that needs nothing because he is over the top on maintenance. -
Jon, thanks for putting Peter’s post in context – I did not think that Peter’s situation was typical but did I not have the benefit that others may have who have been following his story. We plan on going full time in about 18 months, if all goes well, so even though we will not have the schedule that others may have, we also do not want to be stranded and we do not want be constantly fixing stuff so a preventative maintenace program is a must for us. My challenge is to prioritize the stuff that might fail before it does. I do not need to catch everything (I cannot afford that program) but the more I can prevent the more enjoyable the coach will be. I get the big stuff like tires, batteries, oil changes, coolant changes etc… The coach that I recently purchased has a pretty good maintenance history, especially since 2012 when there was quite a bit done such as changing the air bags, extensive brake work, new front Koni shocks, new Silver Leaf glass dash, LED Headlights, tail lights and interior lights and a bunch of other stuff. I will be relying on folks on this site for some help and also probably ELTC in setting up a PM program for the many other things that are just waiting to fail. Hopefully I will not be too much of a pest.
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Jon hit the nail on the head about things done , when I bought the coach from Liberty it was in top shape the delam was already done on bottom , so, some of the things where done because like Jon said I don’t need trouble when on road bottom line coach was in great shape when I bought it , it came with a Liberty warranty also I just wanted it like new somebody could have got along with it for years , but it’s the way I am I like things 1000%
Andy you should have seen what I did to the coach I had before this one and it was in great shape also when I bought it, and the guy that bought it it from me has had no trouble, all he has to do is change fluids for years, it’s just the way I am
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Thanks Peter, that certainly explains the over the top condition of your coach. Good luck selling your coach, I’m sure someone will be very satisfied for years to come. I hope to someday meet some of you and see your coaches.
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Andy…
We had the same concerns about maintenance, etc. when we got our coach several years ago. A chance meeting with Peter at Prevost in Mira Loma early on in our coach ownership, and his recommendation of this site and Jeff at ETLC have made our coach experience most pleasurable. If you’ve not met Jeff yet, it is well worth your time and effort to get your coach to Vonore, and let him check it out. He has worked with us to set up a “zero out” schedule based on what the current components look like based on his experience, rather than simply doing it all at once. One of the relatively few things we have remaining is to replace our brake canisters, and that will be done this winter or next spring. Then we start over again. While we don’t have Peter’s need for our coach to be 1000% for business, we are full time in our coach, I do tend to display a little OCD behavior (I like it right), & we certainly want to avoid nasty roadside surprises if at all possible. The other thing that I would mention is to make it a priority to attend one of the weekend seminars that Jon, Tom, & Jeff put on. I can’t stress enough the dividends it has paid for us in terms of not only overall bus knowledge, but also the opportunity to meet and spend quality time with other bus owners. Next one is coming up next spring, I believe.
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Ditto what Mike said,
We attended a seminar and learned about the various facets of a Prevost. After we bought a coach, we then took it to Jeff’s to zero it out.
Because we travel across the country, we’ve also had work done at several Prevost locations, as well as Marathon. They were all very professional, but Jeff’s is our favorite place so far …and very fair, despite the $500 oil changes 🙂
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All the comments have been very helpful and much appreciated. Jeff has provided me a rough estimate on some regular service work and we plan on taking our bus in in the Spring for regular service, some pm and create a plan going forward. I’ll keep an eye out for the classes.
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Andy, The term “zeroing” has a different meaning to different people. In some cases it might just mean replacing every fluid and filter along with a comprehensive grease job.
Each additional level moves you toward renewing the coach. Belts and hoses and any other wear items would fall in that category.
The next step would be to anticipate that some of the key components especially those that rely on rubber because it ages and loses effectiveness might be next, such as air bags, brake chambers, Norgren valves. Gil thought it was wasteful to arbitrarily replace parts like that unless or until they were showing signs of failure so based on the age of the coach, and what has been done they may be considered nearing or past the end of life.
What you do can be done based on your tolerance for risk, the need based on an inspection, or just because you want to do it. You set the schedule. There are no rules and what you do and when you do it to your coach is entirely up to you.
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Thanks Jon. Although much has been done to the bus I know that there is still much that is original equipment. Then there is the stuff that may have been changed but is due once again for replacement. I’m looking forward to meeting with Jeff to get a professional assessment on the state of the bus.
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