[Archived]

You haven’t missed a thing. The toad has little impact on weights unless it is on a trailer and the trailer adds tongue weight. But if towed 4 wheels down there is a negligible affect on the coach axle weights.

What you are finding is one of the things nobody seems interested in discussing because the converter exceeded the Prevost limits and when you add your personal stuff it makes an overloaded coach way out of whack. The reason nobody wants to talk about it is because if excess axle weights become a hot topic for discussion there are a lot of coaches whose values for resale are going to go down.

From time to time we point out owners need to weight their coaches because tires have to be inflated to handle the weights they carry. Usually this is when owners realize their coach has axles carry loads greater than their rating. Since your coach doesn’t have much if any of your personal effects you are now aware that every pound of stuff you carry is going to make a bad situation worse. You cannot do anything about your weights. You can limit the weight you add to your coach.

It is not the end of the world. Some converters have routinely built coaches that are in excess of some if not all axle weight limits. Owners have been driving them for many years and miles. Just be aware the excess weight is going to have an impact on your use of the coach and try to adjust. It is certainly going to accelerate and brake less effectively than a coach that is within the limits. And the more weight you add the worse it will be, especially braking.

The coach will take longer to raise for leveling. In extreme cases the coach will not lift the front for example unless you compensate, such as by lifting the tag to help the front rise. But you will get used to doing what you have to to bring it level or up to the driving height.

After you have added you personal items, reweigh the coach and make certain you inflate the tires to pressures required for the weight they carry. Then go out and enjoy your coach. Just adjust your driving to compensate for the impact the extra weight has.

When you were looking it is unlikely if anyone alerted you to coach weights. Those whose coaches are within the limits don’t think about it as a problem, and those whose conversions exceed the limits aren’t talking about it.

[Archived]

Bill,

I assume your TOAD was fully on the scale and that’s why you took its weight from the tag’s weight. If it wasn’t on the scale, its weight is effectively nothing on the coach.

As for weights, the axle weights are set by the manufacturers taking into consideration several factors, such as braking capabilities, tire load capacities, axle limits or federal limits.

Take your front axle limits, as an example. If your coach was shipped with 315s, then the tire weight limit would limit the front axle to 18,180 pounds. My guess it did come with 315s. Assuming the axle components, wheels and total coach braking will handle more, you could upgrade the front tires to 365s and possibly raise your front axle capacity to as much as 21,000. BTW, if you aren’t running 365s on the front I highly recommend you make the change, which will require new wheels.

Take your drive axle as another example. I believe that by 2003 the DoT increase single axle maximum loads to 22,500 from 20,000. If so, that explains the drive axle stated limit. The components of the drive axle can likely support more than the stated 20,500.

If you want to reduce weight, it won’te be easy and like Jon said, many drive for many years and lots of miles are weights exceeding the identaplate. I would think the easiest weight reduction move would be to change out flooring if your coach has an all stone (mable or granite) floor. Stone was not used forward on the galley, except at the entrance, by many converters specifically to take weight off the front axles in year’s past.

Another common practice, and one I subscribe to, is don’t travel with any more water than you need. Unless I’m headed to a dry camp my water tank is never more than a 1/4 tank. When I dry camp, which is seldom, I dry to fill my water tank as close to the camp loacation as possible.

Although I don’t know if this can be done on a Prevost, reducing tag axle pressure reduces weight on both the tag and front axles and shifts that weight to the drive axle.

I’d call Marathon and ask them what they did to increase the axle ratings given your coach was weighed equipped pretty much as it left their facility.

[Archived]

I just checked my CAT weight certificate, which shows much lower numbers, thank goodness. Still, I don’t want to have to drive out to the bus to see what my limits are. Does anyone know offhand (probably Jon)?

[Archived]

All good advice Bill, just dump the water and carry 1/4, reweigh when loaded up to go, adjust the tire pressure accordingly and enjoy your bus. Like Gil, if I’m dry cmping, I fill with water close to my destination. Of course that fresh water turns to black/grey, so dump it as soon as possbile when leaving your dry camp area.

[Gerald]

Don’t even think about adjusting air bag pressures to move axle weights around.

Our coaches are essentially DOT certified as commercial vehicles and as such they have to undergo testing to verify compliance. One big part of the standard is braking. For those unaware Prevost has had many variations of the braking systems over the years and more often than not the components used are oddballs. We can rarely walk into a parts store and get parts from inventory. Brake linings are specific in size to each axle. Brake chambers are specific to each axle. The point being if we lighten pressures on the tag axle air bags for example to lighten the steer axle weights, that weight goes to the drive axle. The result is a tag that is underweight and a drive that might be overweight (relatively speaking). All those component sizes are now out of whack if someone is playing with weights.

The ABS on the coach will come into play and a light(er) weight axle will lock up faster than a heavier one so upon impending lockup the ABS starts reducing the brake force. That’s better than a skid or sliding tire, but it is still not as good as a heavier axle that does not have impending lockup.

The only cure for a coach that is overweight on an axle or axles is to reduce weight. Unless and until the marketplace demands that converters built coaches that allow reasonable loading and still be within limits we are going to see coaches that exceed the Prevost limits and that means all items are stressed beyond their design limits.

I think it is ironic that owners give little or no consideration to weight and balance on a vehicle whose braking distances at highway speeds are often greater in length than a football field. We should be demanding converters pay more attention to limits, something that is incredibly difficult to do, but vital.

[Ed]

Our ’99 Marathon 45′ XLV coach weight seems to be on target even with granite floors and the usual solid surface countertops and trim.

Prevost Max Load Spec

MGW: 48,900; Front: 16,500; Drive: 20,400; Tag: 12,000

Loaded travel weight with 1/2 water

Total: 45,040; Front: 14,100; Drive:19,140; Tag: 11,800

If anything our weight seems biased towards the rear. Probably because on this coach, Marathon moved the house batteries to the rear just ahead of the engine compartment.

With those axle weights Prevost recommends tire inflation of Front (100), Drive (80), Tag (80) which seem a bit low to me. I now use 105/90/90. Before I weighed the coach I used 115/105/105 just to be safe. It made for a very harsh ride.

[Archived]

Threegreens,

Do you run helium in your tires? You have the lightest XL-45 of that era I’ve heard of so far. You certainly don’t have any weight concerns. I’m with you on running 80psi. That is Michelin’s lowest recommended pressure, so I too have moved to 95 psi on all rear tires.

For comparison purposes my 99 Country CoachXLV (98 chassis) weights were:

• Front Axle: 7,400 + 7,400 = 14,800
• Drive Axle: 10,800 + 10,100 = 20,900
• Tag Axle: 6,400 + 5,900 = 12,300
• Total Weight: 48,000

My coach has carpet between the galley and front entrance and carpeted bedroom. These weights included fuel fuel tank, a 1/4 tank of water (or less), one passenger, and loaded with stuff for 6 months. The weighing was done by NM Motor Carrier enforcement officers.

Jon, I wasn’t suggesting anyone change their tag axle pressure, but rather what affect it would have. I’m guessing Prevost either uses weight based regulators or weight limited bags on the tag. I say this based on how many tag axle weights seem to be very near their rating.

[Greg]

I responded as I did because at one time a “mechanic” who is currently active on another site had urged owners to do this to take weight off the steer axle. He had some other ideas of a similar nature that I considered equally ill advised, yet he had (has) a following that hang on his every word. We prefer the information covered here to be as accurate as possible.

The tag axles share pressure with the drive axle air bags. Between the tag and drive axles there is a three port Norgren valve that maintains an open path between the 3 air bags per side and the amount of pressure when driving is a function of the ride height valve which only adds or exhasts air as required to maintain the height for driving.

There is no pressure regulator on any part of the suspension system.

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Gil,

As to weights, my 97 45 foot XL was only 46,600. I would recite axle weights but I cannot remember them accurately enough to post them.

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6 months of supplies that a lot of stuff.

[Ed]

it’s really hard for me to understand why a converter would turn out a product they know is above the weight rating by Prevost. The liability exsposer for them would be off the chart. I know it’s done but it is really hard to grasp.

Anyone involved in an accident as the result of braking ability could really have a field day.

A lawyer’s dream.

[Archived]

Greg, that not to much if all the meals are in a five gallon can, You can buy a six month supply for two people it comes in a five gallon pail. get them at Costco, not very flavorful but hoe else can you put six months of food in a five gallon bucket that when empty you can use as a slop jar when your air assist toliet quits! Gary

[Archived]

There have been overweight coaches for as long as we have owned a Prevost (1990).

If the problem wasn’t created by the converter it was the owner who just had to have a Harley in the front bay of an H3. Unless and until this issue becomes widely known by would be buyers converters will build coaches that are either overweight on certain axles or will quickly become overweight if an owner loads typical stuff in the coach.

While it might be possible for owners to shift some of the blame in the event of an accident toward the converter, I suspect the owner and his insurance company are going to bear most if not all the blame if the accident can be shown to be related to weight in excess of the limits.

What scares me is that even though my coaches have all been within the weight limits, I am still potentially to blame in a rear end collision because my braking ability will not prevent an accident when a car pulls in front of me too close and then hits the brakes. My defense I hope is my dash cam. I would suggest we all get one because it is apparently too difficult for car drivers to respect the fact we need a lot of space for stopping, regardless of axle weights.

[Archived]

When it comes to overweight, many of the longer traditional plastic coaches are overweight when they leave the factory and they know it! Some aren’t as bad; you can either fill the tank or bring a limited amount of personal stuff.

As for braking and liability maybe we need to follow McDonalds and label the obvious, “Pulling in front of me too soon and braking could lead to death–YOURS!” or something similar. Big Rids use a graphic, but the picture is probably too difficult for many driver’s to understand.

Six months of stuff should have been stated as stuff for a 6 month trip. Provisions only need to last for a few days, except for the freezer full of Alaskan fish on the return trip.

[Peter]

Gil, My wife doesn’t read the forum so I can post with immunity unless someone rats me out.

I have attempted to convince my wife that wherever we go they have these things called stores. These stores sell food, clothes and other things. But we always pull out of the driveway with enough provisions to stock the average big box store. Just in case.

I still haven’t learned to shut my mouth so my best chance of staying married for another 52 years is to throw the heavy laundry baskets with food and clothes and snacks, and whatever else up onto the floor between the seats and then go away until more laundry baskets are hauled out to the bus.

We reverse the process when we get home.

However the bays that are full of tools, spare parts, tire dressing, cleaning supplies, a ladder, chairs (why do we need 8 chairs for two butts?) hose, power cords (I can reach to anywhere), etc are filled with essentials.