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Trace Inverter Problem?
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I am refreshing this thread because I am having this problem again.
Here is a short recap so you will not have to read the whole thread.
In April I was having a problem with my Trace inverters going into error because of high battery voltage. It is set so that when the battery voltage is over 30 volts for 30 seconds the inverter kicks off. Usually the side 1 inverter would cycle off and back on a few times and then would go into error and stay there. Some times inverter 2 would join in the fun after a few cycles and go into error as well. With both inverters in error the power to everything 120 volts in the coach was cut off. When I immediately cycled the inverter off and back on it would only take a few minutes for the actual battery voltage to begin climbing into the 30s again.
I checked, cleaned and tightened all battery connections to my 2 year old batteries. I checked, double checked and rechecked all settings on the inverters.
I could only find two ways to get it to stop. I could turn off the shore power for a few hours and allow the batteries to invert and drain some OR I could start and run the generator. The battery voltage did not climb and the inverters did not go into error with the generator running.
Because of this I concluded that something must be wrong with the shore power at the location where I was parked. That is a problem because this is the location where I park when I am near home.
Once I left there it Never happened again.
Fast forward to the end of Jully. I have stopped by my home parking spot a few times since April and did not have any problems. We were preparing to leave the bus July 30th for 15 days. I am parked at my “home” spot. As we were leaving inverter 1 went into error because of high battery voltage. Keep in mind that I am now back at the same place I was in April.
I disasembled my cord ends along with the 50 amp box on the wall of the church (that I installed several years ago). I checked for loose connections or anything suspicious and the checked the voltage levels too. I removed the panel cover inside the church and checked all the voltage there as well. I replaced the breaker in the church panel just for kicks and grins.
I called my Dad after a few hours because I really needed to get on the road. He double checked everything I checked and found nothing wrong. I showed him how to operate the inverters and how to shut everything down if I needed for him to do so. We emptied the fridge so I would not have to worry about it and left it in his hands. I would not have left the bus if it had not been for my Dad being able and willing to keep and eye on it.
Thankfully he lives nearby and did not mind checking on the bus and talking to me daily. Here is what happened. Everything would hold for a day or two and then inverter 1 or sometimes both would go into error. I showed him how to check what the error was and it was high battery voltage. He would disconnect the shore power, reset the inverter and then leave the power off for a day or two. When he would turn the power back on it would hold for a day or two before kicking off again.
We arrived home this afternoon. He turned the power on this morning so all is well now. IF the pattern continues I expect it to act up sometime in the next 24 hours. IF it does I plan to start the generator and make sure everything is normal with the generator running as it was in April. I am supposed to move about 25 miles on Sunday and I am anxious to see if the problem stops when I plug into a different source.
I lean toward a shore power problem only because it only has happened here. It could very well be something in the bus, but what? My dad who is a very gifted and retired electrician thinks it is on the bus side but is open to possiblilites. He has the capacity to understand the Vantare system but he needs somebody besides me to explain it to him for sure.
The volt meter on my bus says the incoming voltage is steady on both sides from 121-123. Our handheld meters read about the same at the cord, the receptacle, the breaker and the panel feeds. We have considered the possibility that the feed is spiking very high quicker than the meters can pick it up. Nothing is blackened, worn or loose in the supply line from the building to the bus.
Jeff invited me to call him earlier in this thread and I plan to do so now that I am having problems again. I wanted to get this all down in “writing” so I could make it as clear as possible.
Ideas?
Davy
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I’m wondering how clean your waveforms are coming from the shore service. If there are non-linear loads on the shore service (ballasts, UPS’s, PC power supplies, etc), you could have a significant deviation from a true sine wave and you could have large neutral currents and over-voltages. Your Dad may have a take on how to check the quality of the shore power.
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Thanks, David. I will pass that on to him. I am plugged into the fellowship hall of the church. It is on its own meter and most of the time there is not much running in the whole building. The electric in this whole neighborhood has not been reliable in the past but it is much better now.
Please keep the ideas coming.
Davy
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All is well so far. No problems since coming home Thursday. I have been in touch with Jeff and he had some suggestions. Nothing I can do until it acts up again.
Back in April Gil suggested “Davy, turn off the charging section of the inverter/charger that is going into alarm. Don’t turn off the unit, just the charger function. See if the problem returns on the other charger. If it does not it could be the regulator in the charger.”
How do I do that on these Trace inverters? I did lower the charging amps to 0 back in April when the battery voltage was soaring and the inverters were going into error and it changed nothing. How do I do as Gil suggested?Davy
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Davy,
Without looking at my manual, I don’t believe you can turn off the charge function. You can turn off the inverter and set to charge only, but I don’t recall being able to turn off the charger like you can in other inverter remotes.
Ben?
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That is my understanding from reading the manual, Tom. I thought I might be missing something. Well, I know I am missing something but I thought I might be missing something in particular.
Jeff thinks there must be a way for me to turn off the AC input to the inverters one at a time but I have not been able to find any way. I appreciate his help and you guys too. Keep thinking please.
Davy
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A few things to try:
0- Reset your inverters to factory default settings. There should be a menu setting for this.
1- Turn off one inverter/charger. Leave the second one on and see if the behavior is still there. Then after a few days switch them. You should be able to isolate the problem to one inverter or find out that both cause it by themselves.
2- Set the charging current on the inverters as low as you can. Is the voltage still drifting up?
3- Make sure the inverters do not have the “equalization” mode turned on wich would cause the voltage to exceed 30V. The units have the capability but the RV mode menus typically don’t show them.
4-Reboot the inverters by disconnecting them from the house batteries for a minute. This should get you back to factory default settings.
Gerald
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Davy…
If you have the Trace 4024 inverters you can turn the chargers down to 1 amp charge the default on my vantare is 15amps and I used to turn them down if I needed more amps for A/Cs but only when they were in Float mode… so I know you can do that. Maybe they will go to 0 amp charge I never went that far.
Also do you us a surge protector at the pole ? … that might help… we never plug in until we see good power available.
Hope you get it sorted out and that your daughter is doing well now.
Cheers, Diane
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From Gerald:
0- Reset your inverters to factory default settings. There should be a menu setting for this.
I do know how to do this and I know how to reset the settings to the correct levels for the Vantare set up and for my batteries. How long can I leave them in default setting without messing things up?
1- Turn off one inverter/charger. Leave the second one on and see if the behavior is still there. Then after a few days switch them. You should be able to isolate the problem to one inverter or find out that both cause it by themselves.
If I turn off one of the inverters then I have no AC current on that side of the panel. This is different than most set ups but for those that do not know Vantare runs everything AC through the inverters. I do not have non-inverter circuits. Having said that, once #1 inverter goes into error, #2 inverter continues to operate normally and the actual battery voltage stays within the proper range. IF I reset #1 inverter several times then #2 inverter will begin to go into error.
2- Set the charging current on the inverters as low as you can. Is the voltage still drifting up?
I have set the charging current on zero while this is going on and it still rises.
3- Make sure the inverters do not have the “equalization” mode turned on wich would cause the voltage to exceed 30V. The units have the capability but the RV mode menus typically don’t show them.
I will check that. Do you know how I make sure it is not in equalization mode?
From Diane
If you have the Trace 4024 inverters you can turn the chargers down to 1 amp charge the default on my vantare is 15amps and I used to turn them down if I needed more amps for A/Cs but only when they were in Float mode… so I know you can do that. Maybe they will go to 0 amp charge I never went that far.
I do have the 4024s and I usually adjust them between 5 and 15 depending on demand and charging needs. Mine will go to zero but once this starts it seems to do no good.Also do you us a surge protector at the pole ? … that might help… we never plug in until we see good power available.
I do not have an external surge protecter or power conditioner. I do have a display on the bus that tells me if the power is good. I also check the power at the source before I plug in.
Hope you get it sorted out and that your daughter is doing well now.
My daughter is doing great. She has about 85-90% of her vision now. We are very, very thankful for that. That is a whole lot better than completely blind in one eye. Thanks for your concern.
Thanks for the suggestions, friends. It has not messed up since I came home Thursday.
Davy
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