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Tires..or brakes…or ???
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Both before and after towing.
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Colt, could it be you ? Geo.
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Tom wrote: “I always install my own M & G and I hook a 50′ air hose to the bus and car. Then by hand with a helper, move the car and have the helper apply the bus brakes to assure they apply and release. Easy to do and at least you know it’s working correctly.”
Its this kind of advice that we get from the Prevost Community forum which makes the PC forum my choice for Prevost information and makes every penny of the annual dues more than worthwhile.
Does Air Force One have anyone monitoring the PC forum? Maybe the AF-1 monitor could jump in here, comment on this issue, and help Jimmy out.
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I’m in Destin now headed to New Orleans tomorrow. I still don’t know what to do. Went to 2 Destin tire dealers and they were both too busy to look at my tires. I looked and felt around the tires and no flat spots were noticeable. When the first tire went bad the tire guy put the car up on jacks and could tell by spinning the tires. I don’t know that trick.
NOTE: I’m the furthest thing from a mechanic. I’m the guy Jon talks about who pays to have it done.
Should I get new tires in New Orleans and let those mechanics determine what might be wrong? Could be just bad Chinese tires…maybe. Or I could wreck another tire towing it. I’m going to have to replace the tires anyway. Do it now or wait until I get to Jeff’s next week and have him check it out?
Thank you for all your responses.
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What kind of tires do you have on the toad? How much tread is left? You should have a tread depth gauge, they are available at any auto parts store.
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Jimmy, before you invest in tires (assuming yours are safe) you have to find out why you are flat spotting.
I flat spotted the tires on an H2 Hummer because I left the parking brake on. From that I can tell you that inside the coach you have no idea what is happening with the toad. The only way I know of to flat spot tires is to skid them over a distance so for whatever reason your brakes seem to be locking them up.
I suggested having someone ride alongside the toad while you pull it with the bus and do a series of stops, starting with a gradual stop, working up to a more aggressive stop. Since the AF-1 as set up is unlikely to keep the brakes applied after you have released the coach brakes due to its design I still suspect strongly too much force is being applied to the brakes and under some circumstances the brakes are locking They should never lock. As the racers on this forum will tell you if your brakes are locked your braking force is very little if any. You want the AF-1 force applied to be proportional to the coach, but just short of lock up.
If the toad is locking the brakes as it appears AF-1 should be able to tell you how to modulate the braking force. The fact someone inexperienced installed them it is entirely possible the installation was wrong which is another possibility, but what is causing the problem has to be identified.
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If I had Jimmy’s problem, I would do exactly as Jon suggests.
I was hoping the AF-1 digital marketing/social meda person who is assigned to monitor the PC Forum would have chimed in by now. He or she must be really busy today, maybe they are short-handed with the holiday coming up.
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Dick…there is plenty of tread left on the tires.
I will take Jon’s advice and hopefully the AF-1 rep will chime in also. Thank you all.
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If there is plenty of tread left on the tires, this was my problem, and I was headed to Jeff Rowe in a week or two or even three … I would probably operate it as is. I would check the toad tires visually and by feel at the end of each day you’re running looking for flat spotting if in fact its the AF-1 causing the problem. You’ll know flat spotting from brake lock up versus tire cupping when you see it. Flat spotting through the thread and down to the cords is serious. If the AF-1 is causing the problem replacing the tires only relieves the symptoms and doesn’t address the root cause of the problem. You also have the option of disconnecting the AF-1 system and I know for a fact you won’t be the only PC Forum member towing a toad without a braking system on the toad, but that is a decision only you can make.
Oh … and my comment about AF-1 rep chiming in more tongue in cheek than reality. I lament the fact that only a few of the vendors and suppliers who provide the parts and pieces and services to make use of Prevost motorhomes rewarding and enjoyable actually monitor (troll?) forums and other forms of social media to see what folks are saying about the products and/or services and take opportunities like this one to jump and help.
There are a number on the PC (Jeff, Rudy, Tradewins, etc.) over on the Garage Journal Forum the best is Linda@Lista (actually now Jennie from Lista). Mention an issue or question about a Lista cabinet and Linda@Lista responds almost immediately.
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Jimmy,
have you called AF-1 I agree with others… before you go changing tires and stuff unless there is eminient danger of failure find out what is causing the problem if you AF-1 is not working right you can trash a set of tires in less than an hour or two…. See if you can get into another AF-1 dealer if you call them they should be able to set it up. I talked with the owner/inventor a couple of times when I was making my decision. I think his name is Peter but not positive
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Could it be that the toad brakes are being applied whenever the coach brake lights come on, and on many coaches those break lights come on when the Jake brakes come on. That would put more wear on the toad’s brakes & tires. Nothing’s been said about the toad’s brake wear; how is that?
Not a perfect post; it’s late!
Good luck.
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Jimmy,
Here is the link for the Airforce One service locator:
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Jimmy,
Here’s a thought. If you have a spare that does not have flat spots, replace the worst tire with the spare and disconnect the AF-1.
If the spare does not get damaged with the AF-1 disconnected then the issue is clearly associated with the problem. Your toad is not so heavy the lack of brakes is a show stopper and by disconnecting the braking system when towing you can get to a servicing dealer without further damaging the tires.
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If there are NO flat spots, then it would be the tire itself. I have had several over the years that would make noises and thump while driving. Got rid of them and the issues were gone.
If there is no flat spot, then change them out. I never ran them until they failed, but the guy at the tire shop said it was usually belts shifting, or just bad construction from the start, and they would eventually fail even if they had good tread left.
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jimbeaux,
You are focused on the AF1 system being the source of tire problems on your Toad vehicle. I’ve had an AF1 installed by factory reps in April of 2007. The only time I had any toad tire problems was in Phoenix Arizona. I did not blame Phoenix for those tire problems.
What happened was when we got to our campground, Carole goes in to do the paperwork while I unhook the toad. This time the paperwork was done more quickly than the unhooking. I have a 2500 Ram 4×4 and had placed the transfer case back in gear. I had not completed the unhooking, in fact had not even satrted on the towbar and AF1 hook ups. I had been driving for several hours and we both were in a hurry to get some dinner and then rest. So back into the coach and off we go toward our overnight spot. I went down to the first 90 degree turn when I realized what I had done. I had to drag the truck a little further to get the coach and toad lined up. I then unhooked and Carole drove the truck and I drove the bus to our space. After making the shore power, cable TV, and sewer connections it was off to dinner.
Now we get to where my experience in Phoenix may give a clue to your tire problem. Driving to dinner there was a noticable thumping coming from the rear tire(s). Stopped in a praking lot, got out the flashlight and inspected the rear tires focusing on tread depth. Yep, both were flat spotted. Put two new ones on at Discount Tire and continued on to San Diego, CA.
This is just speculation on my part, however have you checked your rotors and calipers on the Toad vehicle? What may be happening is one rotor may be warped from heat generated by a caliper that is not being totally released and is holding a slight pressure against the rotor, dragging. The heat results in warpage of the rotor and thus is generating the pulsing/thumping you feel. I had a similar problem with a 2003 mini-van I used for commuting 140 miles per day. Most of the trip was on free flow interstate highways. The last 20 miles was on stop and go interstate highways. I got the thumping/pulsing feeling going to the office within the last 20 miles. I got it again within the first 20 miles when returning home. Are you sure the “smell” is tire rubber or is what you are smelling really over heated brakes? The brake pads will wear prematurely and you may see noticible amounts of brake dust on your wheels.
My recommendation is to have the Toad brakes checked and not just keep throwing another set of cheap Chinese tires on the Toad. Heat out of range of normal will ultimately result in total tire failure and worse, possible tire fire on the toad. So be safe and invest a little money getting a professional service technician (I know, oxymoronic) to go over your Toad brake system. If you have a temperature gun, and continue your current tire practice, I’d suggest you have the temp gun handy inside the coach and when yo stop take it out and read the temps on all four of your Toad tires and the rotors. If one is much hotter then your problem is likely to be found there.
This is our 9th season with the AF1 supplemental braking system. No problems that were the fault of the AF1. The AF1 was my only option for supplemental braking system as M&G proudly stated there was no room under the hood of a Hemi equipped Ram 2500. I have no regrets even having been “forced” to use the AF1. Yes I could have used a “Brake Buddy” but chose not to have it to take in and out. It takes me about 5 minutes to either hook or unhook.
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