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Taking the 12.7 to 600hp
Ive been talking to PDI, pittsburg power, and SSPD 60 about this 6067GK28 in my 95 CC. Originally I was thinking of turning it up from 475hp to 500hp, and they both insist this motor can run at 600hp. Im very familiar with DD S60 motors, and blowing them up! Ive got 2 on stands from my trucks. I was going to build a 14L detroit and run 600hp, but I figured why not try this 12.7 first. If it dies, it dies, and ill swap it for a 14L. For those interested… a 6067HK60 is a DDEC 3 pre egr 14L that you can swap into your bus by changing all the bolt ons. Im fully prepared to grenade this little 12.7 for the sake of science. I suspect the Allison transmission may also not be happy with my choice, but time will tell. The 12.7 6067BK60 have piston oilers, it allows them to get oil sprayed on the piston to make it run a little cooler, the BK28 gets oil to the pistons through the drilled connecting rods. Given that I wont be pulling at 80k lbs, it should be fine. Will also have to monitor the EGT and oil temp.
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30 Replies
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Can the cooling system provide enough to compensate for the additional heat created by running the engine with that increased horsepower.
On highway inclines and mountain passes my 99 with the 12.7 at 500 hp would have cooling issues.
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Buddy beat me to it. Seems like Prevost owners are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past.
Way back when DDEC engines were first used in our conversions it was learned the engine HP could easily be turned up. So since some owners couldn’t stand not having as much HP as the next guy there was a rush on getting Detroit dealers to increase the HP.
Then slowly the word trickled out that for short bursts the added HP was a neat thing, but it was pretty much useless on long steep hills in high temp ambient conditions. When the added HP was used to climb long hills the cooling system couldn’t handle it and the engine was derated by DDEC to cool things down.
That was when Prevost owners started to try to deal with the lack of cooling system capacity using misters and some magic additives to make coolant more efficiently. Unless the cooling system is modified to handle the heat of 25 or 30% more HP the extra HP cannot be fully used.
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I’ve been running a PDI remapped 06 14L in a H3 for 3yrs. 50k miles So Ca to Quebec . Towing JK jeep or 2500 Ram . At times 24′ enclosed loaded to 12,000 lbs. only time cooling was marginal was Sherwin Grade leaving Bishop , July hot towing the enclosed tall trlr 214-215 coolant , 1300 hot side pyro , pulls 50 mph 4th gear. PDI Dynoed on their chassis dyno August summer 17′ putting 600 hp on the ground It can be done. The Allison trans does fine , don’t let it shift with the throttle hammered.
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In regards to the cooling, the fact that it wont get hot at 475hp tells me there is room there for capacity. Looking at it from Detroit and Prevost perspective, you need to make it nearly fool proof. If you tell an owner “keep you EGT and Coolant temp down or you will kill the motor” and then expect them to, AND be on the hook for warranty, you arent gonna let that happen. Put it to a power setting that any dummy can hold the throttle to the floor and not blow it up (within reason) and we will warranty that. Im of the mindset, that I am the captain and if I want to knowingly turn my motor into a smoldering chunk of metal, by god let me do it! Im always driving my gauges anyways, when the EGT starts to climb I start watching the coolant and oil temp closer, and start backing out of the throttle. If you run full throttle while temps keep climbing, YOU’RE GONNA HAVE A BAD TIME. Im looking forward to the improvement and will report back my experiences here for the future reference of others. Ordered the 171702 Turbo last night, pulling the ECM for programming today.
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what about twin turbo`s instead ?
1984 96" with 8V92TA
(remodeled Liberty Coach)
Greenwood, MO -
The turbo lag doesn’t bother me, and i don’t need more than 36psi of boost. I tell you what though. I’ve had more fun….country coach decided they should put one of the ac evaporators for my road air on top of the bedroom access hatch for the motor. While I’m at it, I’m gonna replace my coolant sensor for my gauge and oil pressure sensor. The oil supply line for the turbo broke off and 1 of the 4 studs for the pedestal is giving me trouble. Also gonna have the overhead set while I’ve got access. Pretty sure with 180k it’s never been done.
1984 96" with 8V92TA
(remodeled Liberty Coach)
Greenwood, MO -
Turbo Lag, it’s very minimal considering running a large Borg Warner non wastegated turbo . Does not smoke anymore than early 12.7 on spool up. 42-45 psi boost. Hard part is pulling proper wiring to run 3″ analog Ispro on dash. Big fan of Pyrometer on the inlet of turbo, tells all.
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My bus is older than yours, I already have an 1 analog pyro in my cluster, it is however on the down pipe just off the turbo. Are you talking compound or twin? I cant find a kit for the series 60 to do either and im not ambitious enough to develop a complete solution for myself.
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Well, got the overhead set yesterday, put it all the way back together and took it for a 5 mile test run today. REALLY looking forward to pulling some grades to see how it does. There is a noticeable difference in throttle response and rev time. The new turbo builds boost faster than the old turbo. I didnt realize how bad the turbo lag was until I did this work. Ill try to get some video of the instrument panel when I take it out so you can see the acceleration, temps, etc. So far, Im happy.
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Just an FYI
We never put a probe on the inlet side of the turbo, if you fry it or break it off for whatever reason the only place it’s going is thru the turbo.
Later
bv
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Well boys, 6% pulling my towed, full throttle, she did ok. The power does exceed the cooling capacity, I needed to back out of it and speeds ended up same as before the power addition. It does however make a difference on the flats, while passing, accelerating from lights, etc. But the additional power is useless on long grades. Instrument panel picture attached for reference.
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Do you have a scan gauge to monitor engine performance or only the analog gauges? What are the actual temperature comparisons before and after. How long and steep of a grade led it to over heat?
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I have increased my power measurably. My benchmark is Jellico Mountain which is a long steep grade on I-75 southbound starting about 1/2 mile inside the TN/KY state line.
It is a relatively steep grade that I have climbed hundred of times in all three of my coaches. A couple of days ago I hit it at the bottom at my normal 62, and as soon as it started to climb I did the exact same thing I have always done and that is to drop my coach to 5th and put the transmission into performance mode. I could normally maintain 55 (my lowest speed, 4th gear 2100 RPM) or more likely 60 MPH, still in 5th.
This last trip I hit 70, never dropped below 62, and slowly accelerated to 70 when almost to the top and I backed out of it a little to maintain 70.
The difference was weight. My new LiFePo4 batteries were 400 pounds less than the AGM, and since I was 20 miles away from where I would refuel I was about 150 gallons from full (about 1050 pounds) so with 3/4 of a ton less, ambient temp of 75, and no toad I now had sports car power.
I had previously climbed the hill without a toad but this time with the almost 1500 pounds less weight than normal performance was unexpected and a real nice surprise.
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Temps are Oil 190 and Coolant 195 on flat ground loaded pulling the towed at 75mph in AZ Summers. I dont have a scan tool. I have verified my dash gauges with the mechanical in the bay. Thats another long post… but finally got those accurate.
Jon, what engine model are you running? I started casually looking to add cooling capacity today and how to do that.
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Series 60, 14L, 515 HP, DDEC V, with a broken EGR system.
The coach weighs 53,000.
75 MPH??????????? Never mind, that is just me that gets crazy when I know at 60 our coaches need 280 feet to stop and at 70 they need 450 feet. At 75 you will be in the next county when it gets stopped.
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