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PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE
Tom and I are in the position to read and hear about issues people are having with their coaches. A considerable number of the phone calls and emails are meant for privacy as opposed to posting about problems. Tom shared one with me this morning and it is consistent with a lot of those we learn about and is primarily due to the lack of a preventive maintenance program.
This is going to sound like preaching, because it is. The cheapest way to own a coach is to do a good job of following a preventive maintenance program. Deferring maintenance is a recipe for expensive ownership and repair costs.
All of our coaches require maintenance, and if we do a good job adhering to the schedules established for our chassis, house, generator, etc. it may turn out to be far less expensive than postponing or not even doing needed maintenance. A few examples come to mind. Coolant does more than prevent freeze damage to an engine. It’s chemistry when changed or maintained according to schedule can prevent detonation which has the ability to make the cylinder liners porous and ultimately ruin an engine. Not changing coolant saves money in the short term and nobody has any way to verify needed maintenance.
Another example is failure to maintain the pneumatic system. We have known some coaches to be 15 to 20 years old still having the original air dryer cartridge. We know of aux compressors that literally pump moisture laden air into the coach air tanks with the end result being as bad as air bags getting haf full of water.
The point being relatively inexpensive and timely maintenance is going to save or prevent very expensive repairs in the future.
But despite that, some owners do not care, and will sell coaches before that lack of maintenance bites them in the butt. So it is the future owners who pay dearly for poorly maintained coaches. We’ve said it before but will repeat this message to potential buyers. When evaluating a potential purchase make sure you know the maintenance history and if you do not have records, logs, receipts or other proof of a comprehensive and timely maintenance program consider that maintenance was not done and at the very least you have to start from the beginning.
A good wax job and lots of tire dressing are not proof of continued, correct care of a coach.
Amen.
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23 Replies
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Jon, I agree with your statements completely, one question.
Any idea how many coaches will have a complete set of service records?
Having done a fair amount of coach shopping in the last few years, I would say the majority of the coaches that I have looked at,10 years or older, do not service records.
I have noticed if the bus is a multi owner bus, chances are nil of getting any records .
I know the point you are making but it sure seems to fall into the category of “Damn near impossible”. The idea of Zero Out seems to leave a lot to be desired considering this happen usually AFTER the sale.
It really is Buyer Beware.
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I have had complete records for the two previous coaches I have had. The first one, the Legendary XL2 was sold with them. The second one the Liberty H3 had them thrown away while it was being cleaned prior to delivery to the new owner.
I made sure I left EVERYTHING in the coach regarding all service work as well as all upgrades done by ETLC, but for some reason it was all chucked out.
Sometimes the owner is not at fault…..
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Some coach professional sellers will “lose” or not provide coach records. Most owners will not take the time or effort to retain detailed records. There are no service providers I am aware of that will provide a whole coach service program along with detailed record keeping. So the bottom line is a coach buyer has to decide if he is a risk taker, if he should devalue a coach without records, or if he should even care if the coach looks pretty.
When we got our first coach it instantly became evident there are so many required maintenance requirements with such varied intervals ranging from miles to hours to calendar time that I knew I would never be able to track what was done and what was needed without some form, chart or means of record keeping so I started logging work based on my airplane logs.
That proved inadequate because it did not provide a reminder when work had to be done without going back and reviewing when previous work was done so I created a form to log service plus show when the next was due.
Then I found out some maintenance is not listed. I realized I wasn’t going to wait for something to need repairs because I then lost control over when that might happen, so I added items to remove and replace based on anecdotal evidence, such as air bags, Norgrens, tires, batteries, brake chambers, hoses, etc.
My purpose in hammering on the need for detailed records is nobody is going to remind an owner when to change coolant or transmission fluids or clean the A/C filters, or check or change the generator belt. There is so much going on that needs attention even if you are given a crate full of receipts it takes a concentrated effort to determine what was done and when and if something is lacking.
I have serviced my coaches over 80 times. That includes oil, filters, lubes, etc. I have changed coolant at least ten times, transmission fluid at least 5 times, I have replaced multiple sets of air bags, brake chambers, Norgrens, etc. and since day 1 back in 1990 they have all been done to a schedule that is based on what all the various manufacturers list, those events are logged and at any given time I know what has been done, when it was done and when it is due.
The common claim of having Prevost or someone service the coach annually is false security, inadequate, and ignores a lot of needed maintenance events unless it is done to a whole coach comprehensive plan that needs both a full history as well as a calendar, mileage or hour listing of future events. As owners we have conversion service required. We have chassis service required. We have generator service required. Tires, batteries, etc. etc. How is your memory?
Any seller that does provide records regarding maintenance may find they will cement the sale because they are so comprehensive and in fact may add value, or they may prove there are serious omissions that might prove the lack of certain maintenance events is a serious problem. So I consider the lack of records as proof nothing has been done and would have to start from the beginning.
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A good inspection can tell battery age, if air bags have ever been replaced as well as norgren valves and brake chambers….services are another issue unless proof is available…
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Jeff is correct about being able to tell dates on items such as batteries or air bags.
But to see them on my Liberty I have to pull the entertainment center to see batteries, and the date on the air bags is on paper pasted on the end cap of the air bag, and with age it becomes unreadable. Nobody is going to pull an air bag or entertainment center to check dates.
But the last page of my maintenance log that I fill out every time I do a routine service has the date when replacement of those items will be due.
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When I buy a vehicle and it does not come with maintenance records I deduct from my offering price what I guess it will take to bring it up to par.
In addition, I don’t understand how other people keep track of maintenance without an Excel spreadsheet or equivalent. I have 6 cars, a boat, a bus, and a tractor. Each one requires regular maintenance. There is no way I could remember last oil, coolant, transmission oil change, or misc repair for each vehicle without the spreadsheet. It takes virtually no time to keep.
2000 Featherlite H3-45
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee
Leesburg, FL -
Can someone post a sample list of the needed maintenance items that wouldn’t be covered in the annual service visit back to the converter or Prevost? I’m a newbie in the hobby and would like to start a nice record keeping system.
1984 96" with 8V92TA
(remodeled Liberty Coach)
Greenwood, MO -
Your first step is to examine your tolerance for mechanical problems. Most owners are not going to remove and dispose of still useful parts as a means of maintaining a high degree of reliability so your feelings regarding the possibility of unplanned repairs will shape your maintenance schedule.
Your environment and how you use your coach is also a serious factor in creating a list of maintenance events. If your coach is not exposed to conditions from the rust belt or coastal venues your list doesn’t have to consider potential corrosion issues for example.
Then you have to learn from countless posts the consequences of doing or not doing some preventive maintenance. Batteries are clearly a maintenance requirement, but do you put them on a schedule for replacement, or do you wait until they show signs of failure? You have to consider how you use your batteries and what the impact will be if you wait for them to signal the end of life.
Examples of items not listed, but which clearly have to be considered are air bags and Norgren valves. Brake chambers are listed, but depending on your coach the service manual may say change every 100,000 miles or annually, something almost nobody does or even considers. Other items that may not be listed or that may have a place on a maintenance schedule that might not be realistic will be shocks, tires, batteries, belts, hoses, and various air system components like relay valves.
We all have different wants and needs and your maintenance schedule will be shaped by your willingness to accept some unplanned problems, economic considerations and where and how the coach is used. There is no one single list I am aware of that covers everything. My list has been developed based on the owner’s manuals, anecdotal or personal experience based on 30 years of ownership, and my unwillingness to deal with problems when using the coach.
At a minimum however the maintenance requirements listed by Prevost or the converter should be the minimum and if they are followed there will be very few surprises.
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Have a Level 3 done at a Prevost Facility and it covers quite a bit. I do it once a year and usually don’t drive 5000 to 7000 a year. Cheap Insurance.
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All kidding and BS aside (I’ll pick that up down the road a bit) Jon Wehrenberg is the Prevost maintenance guru among us and likely has a world class tracking system. Having flown and owned high performance aircraft and a few Prevosts, I’m sure he has a great system.
Myself and probably a few others would likely benefit from seeing the system(s), Gantt and pareto charts, graphs, spreadsheets, etc. that Jon uses to keep track of maintenance, repair, replacement, upkeep, and upgrades of his coaches.
I’m less interested in seeing specific data on Jon’s coaches than I am on seeing the structure of the forms he uses for tracking.
Maybe he could post the Excel spreadsheet templates he uses or a PDF of the same.
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Jon, Dick is sucking up hoping for a dues credit.
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The format I use for tracking and forecasting my maintenance has been in the articles section for quite a while so it is not current, but serves to illustrate how I track what is done, when and when the next event is due.
https://www.prevostcommunity.com/article-details.asp?ID=7
Every 5000 miles I do a service. At the completion of the service I record when it was done (miles, date, or hours) and those events that are not on a 5000 mile schedule I carry forward the completion date or miles or carry forward when the event is next due.
For example I will record the miles for my oil and filter changes, plus the inspections I do at the 5000 mile interval. But last summer I changed coolant, and since I used extended life, I recorded when I did it, and then every 5000 mile service record will list when it is due, such as 7/2025.
But not all repair or maintenance events are covered by that form, so I have a log page that lists date, miles, and what work was done. So on that form I would note the date and miles when I did my routine 5000 mile service, but I would also list any other work performed, such as making a repair, or doing a modification. When I modify something I describe what I did, including part numbers, I include drawings, sketches or diagrams, and usually list or describe what is required to restore the coach to the factory original condition. An example of that is when I stopped using pneumatic belt tensioners and added my jack screw design. But I retained all parts, labeled them, and added details on how to restore the original belt tensioners.
I added solenoid valves and a second thermostat to limit the HW tank temperature to 125 degrees instead of the 200 degrees engine coolant will heat it to. I logged that event, included part numbers and when it was done so if I need to service or repair that modification I have all the information needed, but more importantly a future owner will have all the needed information.
Every time I do a 5000 mile service I am reminded of upcoming needed maintenance because when I fill out the form anything that is not what I consider a 5000 mile event has a due date noted on the previous service form. I copy those due dates on every 5000 mile form and then perform that task at the appropriate time.
Keep in mind what is on my form may not be complete, but it is the best I could do, and as soon as I realize I need to include something I modify the form. I use the form to remind me of part numbers, such as belts which may vary from what Prevost lists.
If I have overlooked something I change the form and make sure my omission did no harm. There are so many things we need to be aware of for insuring reliable service some can easily be overlooked so keeping the form current minimizes problems.
If I ever have someone else maintain my coach I will continue to use those forms and logs.
Nobody else is going to be in a position to remind me when I need a coolant or transmission fluid change, tires, batteries, air bags, etc, so my form is very valuable to me. But it is coach specific so what works for my coach may not work for another coach or conversion. What is important is to create forms to function as records and reminders, plus another form to list everything done in addition to the routine maintenance.
Also, my service intervals are those I selected. Prevost lists 6200 mile intervals for lubing, but I can’t track that as easy as 5000 mile intervals so that is how I ended up with that. Others may prefer 10,000 mile intervals. Regardless of personal preference what is critical is having the record and reminder.
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Double his dues because what he was looking for was already in the articles section.
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Tom has our mail, so I’d rather not speak frankly and openly until Friday.
When we were at Tom’s I said we were up for dues payment again and I asked if he’d take some 12 to 14 year aged Wisconsin Cheddar, which he quickly agreed to. Cathie gave him a nice chunk we’d bought in Sheboygan county (WI) just before Christmas. Thinking this was to cover Tom’s half of the dues, I asked about Jon’s share. Tom mumbled something about the guy growing own food, being self-sufficient, spending too much time in his pit, and then his voice trailed off.
So what do the rest of you do about PC dues? Do you split yours in half and give each a share? Or do you rely one or the other to share with the other?
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I fill out the proper paperwork and put poor farmer in the comments section then wait for the refund to show, works every time.
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