[Archived]

Congrads on your new bus and welcome to PC.

[Archived]

Welcome Joe.

As you likely know Angola is no longer in business, but Panterra Coach possesses the knowledge of their conversions. You may wish to contact them for questions relating to the conversion portion of your coach.

http://panterracoach.com/

As to your question regarding inverters and chargers the best thing you can do initially is develop a baseline. Separate all the batteries and test them. As a new owner, unless you know them all to be good if one or more are bad or weak you can get unusual indications that drive even experienced owners crazy. Then set the charging protocol for the inverters to the voltages specified by the battery manufacturer for the battery type. Each type of battery, Gel, AGM, lead acid is going to have different voltages for bulk, absorbtion, and float.

Whether you leave the inverters powered up all the time is a decision based on where and how you store the coach. The ideal situation is to either keep the inverters powered up 100% of the time to maintain the house batteries or put the entire coach to “sleep” with all power shut down completely. If you leave the inverters “on” you have to be aware that if the power to the coach is interrupted the inverters and phantom loads could draw the batteries down to 0% power a situation that is very bad for batteries. I leave mine on all the time, but I store the coach 15 paces from the house and I am usually in my garage daily. I am not sure I would leave power on if I had the coach stored remotely.

As to the 24 volt chassis battery unless you know the charger to be a high quality three stage with charging voltages appropriate for the battery type you may wish to leave it “off”. Your chassis batteries should hold the charge for months unless there are loads that should not be there. A previous owner may have tapped into chassis power for some reason and without documentation the only way to know you are OK is to monitor the battery voltage until you know the batteries will hold a charge. The batteries should hold a charge a long time (months) even with the coach master switches “on”.

Most of the questions you will have are not necessarily Angola specific because our conversions, regardless of the converter share similar components and design logic for the most part. There are exceptions. Whenever you get questions just post them here. With hundreds of owners it is unlikely your questions cannot be answered. I’m sure that from time to time the answers may actually be correct.

[Archived]

Joe,

You came to the right place for help and we’re glad you joined up.
I believe some of the folks with our advertiser, Panterra, were with
Angola when your bus was built. You may want to give them a call and
see if they can shed any light on your manual. There are other Angola
folks who may jump in here. Your vintage bus, early 90’s, is pretty
straight forward and there are lot’s of owners here that can help
with your questions.

You didn’t mention any kind of PDI, but you may want to look at
Jon’s Article to get a starting point with your maintenance needs.
Pre
Purchase Hopefully, you have tires and batteries with recent date
codes and up to date service records for the engine and transmission.

As for your inverters, if you have AGM’s for the house and don’t
have a particular setting, you can use the wet cell settings, they
are close. You want charging numbers close to 14.4 for
bulk/absorption and 13.4 for float. Your chassis charger is
probably not a 3 stage unless it’s been changed and you don’t want
the single stage charger left on for long periods, you’ll cook the
batteries. If you have Lifelines, I can give you the mfg date if you
provide the date code.

Fire away with your questions using the various forum topics and
welcome to PC.

[Scott]

Thanks, I knew Angola was long gone but did not know about the panterra connection. I’ll contact them for potential manuals.

I have the AGM battery type set correctly now. I’m building the bus barn now and so it’s currently parked in a lot with no power. So I go cold and dark on shutdown. As soon as I can get to a pole I’ll do the 8 hour equalize and then see how they react. The 4 AGM house batts and the 4 start batts were all replaced in late 09. They have been on constant power as far as I know.

I’m missing documentation on the 24 volt charger and will leave it off for now. I always close the 24V and 12V disconnect in the engine compartment when I shutdown the big noise maker. They should always be charged and OK.

Thanks for the help

[Jim]

I did get a file folder full of the maintenance records. It may not be everything but I have a lot back several years.

The coach got some routine maintenance, but was not used much the last 2 years. I expect to have some “put power and load back on it” type failures. I think I had one of those with one of the roof AC Sunday. I’m sure it was working when I bought the coach but it now blows room air, no cooling. It was over 100 outside. I expect it cycled on and the load did it in. I’ll have to get that checked out.

Tires are good, and all batts replaced in late 09. Should be good a few more years. I plan to equalize them soon as I don’t think that has been done in a while if ever.

Oil was changed 5500 miles ago but also almost 3 years ago. It goes in Monday for an oil change filter change and Lube.

Transmission fluid and filter was changed about the same time to the synthetic fluid. It will need to be changed in another 5,000 miles.

Thanks

[Archived]

Just a small point of clarification. It sounds like you have inverter/chargers, which would be typical. When you leave your coach, do not leave the inverter on. Do leave the charger on. If you leave the inverter on and you lose commercial power you will drain your batteries. Those that have been around a while may simply referred to the combined inverter/charger as a charger or inverter and those that havve been around will probably understand what they are saying. I don’t want to assume you have that past knowledge.

Congrats on the new coach!

[Archived]

Joe……since you are putting the coach to sleep by killing all power make sure you do the shut down in the correct sequence to avoid damage to the inverters. Turn the inverters “off”. Turn 120 volt power to the inverters “off”, THEN turn the DC (battery) master switches “off”. If you do it in reverse you can do possible harm to the inverters.

[Archived]

Joe,

Congratulations on your new bus. We had a 1992 Angola XL for 5 and a half years. It was a great coach. I purchased it in 2002 with 156k miles. It did not have an Angola manual and I did not have any drawings. The best thing about an Angola is that the converter took a no-nonsense approach to its systems. Meaning that they were very logical and uncomplicated. This made repairs much easier. The guys at Panterra are a great resource if you have questions.

My coach had two Vanner 2500 watt inverters and two separate battery chargers. The chargers were located behind the front bumper as were the house batteries and was used only for charging the house batteries. I would generally only run one charger as the bus was typically either plugged in or running down the road (we didn’t do much dry camping). I don’t remember if the BASS panel (the large electrical panel with all of the breakers and guages for battery and shore power) had one of two breakers for the chargers. I could run everything in the coach except the roof airs and the hot water heater off of the inverters.

When I parked the coach, I generally shut down the 12 volt and 24 volt master systems in the engine bay.

I would suggest at least two items for preventative maintenance:

First, take your bus to a good diesel shop and have them change/flush the coolant and thoroughly inspect the radiator (take the hoses off and really look inside). We blew the engine in our bus at 208k miles because of a clogged radiator. Evidently a previous owner had run automotive anti-freeze in the bus and that resulted in catastrophic failure. The 8V92’s do not like to get hot. Even though there are sensors and shut downs to prevent a failure they did not work for me. Two years after rebuilding the engine and replacing the radiator I found the new radiator was about 20% obstructed. It will cost you several hundred dollars for the service, but it is much less painful than the $12k we spend on the rebuild.

Second, find a mechanic (it will not be easy) that knows how to work on Espar heaters. Have him tune them up and make sure they are in proper working order. You don’t want to find out they are not working properly on your first cold camping trip. Mine were very tempermental. The biggest issue that I had with mine were that they would smoke excessively on start up (not a big deal if you are at a concert and a fog machine is needed, but it isn’t a good thing in a campground).

Have a great time with the bus.

Loc

[needtocamp]

Ok my set-up appears to be similar. It seems I have two 2500 watt inverter/chargers.

The “A” inverter/charger appears to be a Freedom 458 series with a remote control panel. It allows me to set the house battery type and total size and set the AC in breaker size. I can also start a manual equalize cycle. The built in charger supports 3 stage charging with voltage set by the battery type. I can see the Charge amps drop as the batteries are charged.

The B inverter charger appears to be a Freedom 25. It also has a remote panel with an on/off switch. It has an built in charger but it must be slaved to the A inverter as the charge amps are always zero. Both units show the same battery voltage.

Both of these units can be turned on/off from the BASS panel. The remotes are mounted in the steering compartment. The inverter/chargers are mounted in the spare tire compartment as are the 4 255 amp hour Lifeline AGM batts. I have not yet dropped the front bumper to verify which inverter is which but these are the component manuals that I inherited. I have been leaving the inverter and by defination the charger turned on at the remote and turning them on/off at the BASS panel.

I assume the inverters are “stacked” but from a wiring perspective I don’t know what that means – parallel perhaps? The BASS essentially has 4 columns of breakers (Are those breakers or just disconnects?). One column for 12V DC, two columns for 120V AC which I assume are the two 120 volt legs of the generator or shore power, and one column for the inverter loads. Both inverters must feed this column of breakers.

So back to the procedures …. When I start up the coach, I close the 12V and 24 V disconnect in the engine compartment and start the big noise maker. I close the 12V DC breakers at the Bass and can run the inverter loads. Is my assumption correct that the inverter loads are some how fed from the 24V alternators on the engine? or in fact is this power coming from the house batts?

When I stop. I turn off the big noise maker and open the 12V and 24 V disconnects. I can then either run the generator or plug into 50 amp shore power. There is an automatic transfer switch but I don’t plan to ever run the genny and be plugged in at the same time.

When I go cold and dark. I have been turning off the generator and then opening the A and B inverter breakers on the BASS panel. If I’m following the couple of reply above I should in fact be openinging those breakers (for that matter all the AC breakers) before either shuting down the generator or opening the disconnect at the shore power and unplugging. Lastly I open the 12 V DC breakers on the BASS. All lights on the BASS are out at that point.

Do I need to take other actions at the remote panels for the inverters before I turn them off at the BASS? Do I need to do things in a different order? Manuals might be useful to get this order correct!

The build sheet indicates I have 2 alternators. One I can see is belt driven (I assume this is the 75 amps 12 volt) and I assume (but have not looked to verify) the 24 V alternator is gear driven on the front of the engine. The engine compartment also has two 50 amp vanner equalizers. I assume the 24 V alternator and vanners are stictly for the chassis systems and the small 12V is connected to the house system. But I’m not sure how this tie is made. Will it charge the house batts going down the road or only run the inverter loads?

And to finish off this long winded electrical help session. One of the AC amp meters on the BASS does not work. It always reads zero. The second is ok. And I have a couple of the lights which do not work on the individual breakers. Any help in repair of these items or who to contact for replacment parts is great.

So just let me know where I’m headed in the wrong direction. I’m just a newby on a hunt to break something expensive.

[Archived]

Joe,

It sounds as if you are getting a handle on understanding your coach. Let me make a few general comments. These are likely to be applicable to your coach, but verify what I am saying.

When your big noisemaker is running your chassis and house batteries are being charged. Your coach sounds like Angola has provided a dedicated alternator for the house. The large alternator, likely a 50DN Delco 270 amp is for the chassis. The big size is to handle the loads of the over the road (OTC) AC system.

On my coaches the reason for turning off the inverters before turning off the DC (house batteries) is so the loss of DC power is not viewed by the inverters as a call for battery charging causing them to try to charge batteries no longer connected. As to why one does not show charging one inverter may be dominant. On my previous coach one appeared to carry the load, but in fact if the batteries were drawn down, then both would increase the charging amperage until the batteries were charged at which point only one was doing the work.

Try to understand that in the absence of shore or generator power your inverters are taking battery power and making it 120 volt power to circuits dedicated to the inverters. I don’t know what circuits Angola powers from inverters, but on my coaches the circuits are limited to specific devices such as forward outlets, rear outlets, microwave, TV, auxiliary air compressor and refrigerator. When shore or generator power is available, that power is used to convert the inverters to battery chargers and the available shore or generator power is simply passed through the inverter direct to the inverter circuits via a relay or similar device. The only things you need to understand for future information if you have an inverter failure is if Angola provided a means of bypassing the inverters, and which inverter powers which circuits. If an inverter should fail you then know how to get power to critical devices such as your refrigerator.

[Kenneth]

Joe,

A couple of thoughts / answers. Your inverters should support separate breakers on the BASS panel. The easiest way to check what powers what is to unplug from shore power (or turn the generator off) and then turn one inverter off and see what breakers still work. Then turn off the other inverter. On my BASS panel it was set up so that part of one column was DC, one was partially supported by one inverter; another part was supported by the second inverter and the other two columns of breakers were only supported by shore or generator power. My coach was not set up to power the AC’s through the inverters. My guess is that your’s is set up the same way.

You coach should have a transfer switch which will automatically switch from shore to generator power when you start the generator. I typically shut off the AC breakers before turning off/on the generator or un/plugging from shore power. I dont worry about the other loads as the inverters handle them fine. Your transfer switch is likely in the second bay behind the generator. Access to mine was through a panel in the middle of the front bay which was easy to remove. The radiator and battery for the generator were also in this space.

My Angola was set up so that the engine charges both the chassis and house batteries. Your coach should be the same. It is easy to check on the BASS panel. There is a panel (I think the second one) that reads DC voltage and you should notice a change with the coach engine running (without generator and shore power). I had a toggle switch on the BASS panel that would show 12 Volt and 24 Volt levels.

[Scott]

t would be best to take a picture of your engine compartment so we
can be accurate. If you have OTR, then as Jon mentioned you will have
a big 270/300 belt driven oil cooled alternator for the chassis. You
would then have a smaller alternator for the house batteries. If you
didn’t have OTR, the big oil cooled alternator would be for the house
and the smaller for the chassis. With 4 house batteries drawn down,
that small alternator is going to be working hard while driving.

Maybe this will help:

Shore Power/Generator – Leave everything on (providing you have
water in the hot water heater).

Dry Camping – Leave everything on necessary, reduce AC loads where
practical, monitor battery voltage and start gen at 12.2 volts. Let
run until float charge. Or, activate the Auto-Start to accomplish the
same thing. You will find high amperage devices such as water
heater, heaters, A/C’s and cook tops won’t be wired through the
inverter since you have an Angola.

Storage without power and no-auto start – Kill 12 and 24 in the
engine compartment, shut off all power devices in the coach, turn off
DC master switch (assuming you have one) turn off inverter/charges
and then turn off cut-off switch between the house batteries and
inverters.

You will still have some DC voltage in the engine compartment for
DDEC and depending how long it’s stored will determine the condition
of your chassis batteries. A couple months should not be a problem.

[Archived]

John, Tom , Loc

Thanks for those responces. My learning curve is steep but I think I have a basic understnading of how it all works. But without any manual or diagrams some small pieces are still missing. For example I don’t have a master DC breaker on the BASS and If I have a manual switch (like the disconnects in the engine compartment) for the house system I don’t know where it is located.

And then there are things like the generator auto start was an after conversion add on. I have the receipt from when it was added but it does not seem to work. It may be as simple as setting some dip switches in the control box but I have not gotten arround to trouble shooting it. 10 hrs a day at work seems to get in the way.

Good idea on the Espar heaters. I’ll look for someone to tune them.

This coach also had the wrong antifreeze experience. It seems the PO Iright after he purchased it) overheated it on I-70 west of Denver. 8 cyclinder kits, new main and rod bearings and a new radiator (old one completely plugged) later it cools good. Rebuild was about 20K ago.

It goes to the shop on Monday for oil/filter change, Lube, air filter change, fuel filter change. As it has about 100,000 miles on it I may have the fan gear box oil changed, and will have the coolant tested. If it needs changing I will do that as well. If there is anything else that should be done at the 100,000 miles mark let me know.

Thanks agin for the help and I’ll have more questions I’m sure.

[Archived]

Joe,

Spend an evening with your computer to create a master maintenance schedule for your specific coach. The Prevost web site has the maintenance schedule for the chassis, I am sure you can easily create one for the generator, and then consider other tasks such as cleaning AC filters (other than your OTR).

If you take the time to research the maintenance needs of your coach you will realize you have decisions to make about how and when you will address certain events. Some maintenance is required based on mileage, some is based on time and some is based on need.

Oil changes are usually based on mileage. Coolant and transmission fluid changes are usually time based, tires might be based on either one depending on your usage. You also have batteries that you can change out as preventive maintenance, or you can wait until they die. Just recognize nothing ever fails when the bus is in the barn so if you await a failure for some replacements such as batteries you may screw up a long planned trip.

I don’t know if you have automatic slack adjusters or not, but during the service I would check brake adjustment and brake chamber travel, I would change differential fluid, I would take a serious look at the air bags, brake chambers and Norgren valves. Those three items are or use rubber and if anything relies on rubber for its function age is what determines when they should be replaced.

Since the coach is new to you I would suggest you spend a lot of time beneath it looking at hoses, brake linings, looking for hub seal leaks, making sure all lube fittings are good and the dust boots are intact. I would look especially hard at converter installed hoses. The hoses supplied with the engine are usually excellent, but the converter installed hoses seem to lack the life span of the engine hoses.

If your aux air system leaks down I would at least try to locate the obvious leaks. If the bus leans after a while when parked I would pay particular attention to the air bags and related fittings and Norgren valves.

You can be reactive or proactive whichever approach works best for you. Just recognize that there is a lot to maintenance and good maintenance will make the enjoyment of the coach much greater.

You talked about changing dip switches and I would caution you to develop a good understanding of the systems and system logic before you start tweaking things.

[Archived]

Joe,

Your inveter/chargers are just from a different time of manufacturer. That’s why they have different model numbers. I don’t believe you could slave those chargers. It’s no big deal that one is reading zero charge amps. When one is charging the other may see enough voltage being supplied by the one charger that it doesn’t attempt to charge what it sees as an already charged battery bank. You should turn off the charger on the one that’s charging just to make sure the other actually works. When you turn these chargers on they will automatically begin in bulk mode, move to the accept mode, and finally float mode. Even if the batteries are fully charged they will move through this sequence. If the batteries are charged the sequence will be pretty quick.

The manuals for the inverter/chargers and remote panels are available online. FYI, if your inverter/chargers are labelled Heart, they are actually Xantrex units.

If you discover it’s time for new batteries, check with Tom first.