[needtocamp]

DKO, I lack knowledge of the specifics of a Vantare except I believe everything on the coach runs through the inverters. That is significant if true because it means you can run anything you want as long as the batteries have sufficient power.

But your batteries are affected by how you use them. To extract the greatest life from a battery minimize or eliminate deep discharges. If you never allow them to be drawn down deeper than 12.25 to 12.3 volts they will last much longer than if you take them down to 12 or less. You have to balance the benefits to determine what is most advantageous to you. There are numerous sites on the internet that offer very good information on batteries and the impact on life span the amount of discharge has. That also ties in with how the batteries are charged and the voltages for the three phases of charging.

As to how your autostart works relative to what battery voltage initiates the start and if the generator run time is related to time depends on how your autostart is set up. Mine is initiated at a specific voltage and runs for a predetermined amount of time. Yours may vary. A true charge is also impacted by how your charging current is set up. Because I use my coach as you do, running from shore power to shore power I have set my inverters to a very low charging current to bias my power consumption towards other loads such as air conditioning. At the current level set for my inverters it is doubtful a deeply discharged set of batteries in my coach will be fully and properly charged in the alloted generator run time so I manually control my generator to avoid deep discharges.

We have some very astute Vantare owners on the site and perhaps they cah share their knowledge regarding your questions.

[AL]

DKO,

It’s not uncommon for the charge cycle from Bulk, Absorption and Float to take 3 hrs. It all depends on how deeply discharged, but my experience charging from 12.2 is about that amount of time. Like Jon, I have no experience with Vantare, but I know they ran some heavy AC loads off the inverters other than the A/C’s.

[Archived]

“To extract the greatest life from a battery minimize or eliminate deep discharges. If you never allow them to be drawn down deeper than 12.25 to 12.3 volts they will last much longer than if you take them down to 12 or less. You have to balance the benefits to determine what is most advantageous to you.”

I was always led to believe that batteries would last longer if they were in fact “worked” and therefore did not build up deposits. A battery that is not being worked would develop something like lazy battery syndrome or something to that effect.

In other words, the battery would not charge up completely after being drawn down.

I just replaced all of my house batteries, 50% of them were technically shot (I have eight) and they were right on six years old.

My question is this. What you are saying here, if I am reading it right, is the exact opposite to what I believe to be correct.

Would appreciate your input on my inquiry when you find the time.

Thanks,

BCO

[needtocamp]

NiCad batteries will in fact develop a memory and unless drawn down regularly their storage will be adversely impacted. These batteries are typically used in aviation and are handled much different than the types we use.

Our types of batteries, lead acid, AGM, gel are all going to benefit from recharging at some point around 50% or less. The information is available on many sites around the internet, but constant deep discharges may end up with the battery used up after XXXX cycles, but only drawing them down 50% may yield many times more charging cycles.

FWIW the length of time a battery takes to be drawn down 50% is significantly longer than the time to draw it down the remaining 50%.

[Archived]

Okay, I got it … I think. From what you have said (yet still be prepared to stay up late at night in OKC Jon).

It pays to be knowledgable (sp) about these things, especially when it costs so much to replace them.

BCO

[Davy]

Because coach ownership involves so many disciplines and factors and we need to at least need to know how to get information on all of the various issues and devices we will encounter I have been bookmarking information any time I run across something that is going to help, if not now, but in the future.

http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm#Using%20a%20deep%20cycle%20battery%20as%20a%20starting%20battery

That one in particular has been a wealth of information and I refer to it often. There are many others also.

It is very difficult for me to stay up with my coach without having access to information to supplement the owner’s manual and other books so I make extensive use of resouces such as Prevost’s web site which not only has coach specific diagrams and manuals but provides links to the manuals for all of the major components and systems. Then I go for the generic information such as the excellent link Ken provided for relays. I don’t yet have a developed log book for my coach, but as I get into different tasks and log them I will also add that to my reference library.

[Jim/Chris]

DKO…

Jon is indeed correct about Vantare being setup differently in that everything does run through the inverters.

You can with the help of your inverter manual set up your generator to come on when it sees the voltage drop to your desired voltage and turn off at your desired voltage. I believe there are guidlines for those voltages too.. another option is time of day etc.. I have never used either option but they are there.

Like Jon… I keep my eyes on the inverter numbers if I am running off the batteries… you have to be especially careful as everything you have on at the time of a power failure (shore) your inverters will try to start everything back up from your batteries and run until they die (batteries) if you don’t have your settings correct.

I have never run an ac off the batteries.. I’d rather run my OTR from my engine if I had to… I use the heck out of my generator… figured that’s what its for and doesn’t use much fuel…and it’s a real workhorse & I can run everything in the bus.. they run better loaded up. The cost of the fuel is cheaper than new batteries prematurely !!

Just my two cents worth.

Diane

[Greg]

Yes, that is one thing I have learned, everything on the Vantare runs through the inverters. They are also set up at 24 volts rather that 12 so settings in relation to 12 volts are meaningless to me.

It has definitely been a learning experience for me but that has been true since I bought the bus in 2008. Thankfully, I now have this resource to learn from. That is making all of the bumps in the road a lot easier.

BCO, I wish my batteries were that small!

Thanks again for all of the help.

DKO

[Archived]

If you look at your software setup section of the user manual, you will see that

Battery voltage, current load and time are all used to start/stop the generator to protect your batteries.

the defaults set the following

1. if the inverter sees 12.3 VDC for 24 hours, gen starts,

2. if the inverter sees 11.8 VDC for 2 hours, gen starts,

3. if the inverter sees 11.3 VDC for 15 minutes gen starts.

4. if the inverter sees 11 VDC for 30 seconds, gen starts — this is also LBCO (low battery cut out) voltage and the inverter is going to go into an effort to get the gen started before it can’t.

The gen will also start if the inverter sees a load of 20AMP for 5 minutes

There are lots of little nuances of these inverters that are worth your knowing. I do suggest that anyone who has these, they just set it to gen auto start and save your self some cost and headache.

Charging is kind of the same thing. You have a bulk and absorption time which are settings and then a float which has to see a steady 13.4 VDC for a set amount of time at which point, charging is done.

Another aspec of this, you are hiking down the byway and pull in and shut down for lunch. No problem,

When you get to a camp ground an plug in, you need to let the inverters acclimate for a little while. They are going to try to directly to the charging cycle. This is not usuually a problem at 50AMP locations, but get to a 30 AMP service and your chargers set at 15 amp are using half your service. In that case, lower the charging amps and more importantly remember that it was not the wife’s fault when she tried to heat your soup and coffe in the microwave and suddenly nothing is working right because you popped the breakers.

[Archived]

Sawdust 128…

Is that chart for the Trace 4000 inverter?? My max charge rate says 15 amps not 20 amps. I set mine down to 5 or even less temporarily when I need to run all my acs without tripping as long as I’m in float.

Diane

[Archived]

Yes it is for the 4000 series. It is from a version of the manual covering the sw4012, sw4024 and sw4048 (corrected from sw4028). I had the desktop gremblins decide that I should no longer have a computer or at least not have one that works. So, my normal set of documents is not accessible and I pulled that one from an online source.

So just to be safe, check your own values in your own manual.

I do believe that if your are at the 41 software revision, the “motorcoach edition” usually the sw4024 inverter, it will come up at 15AMP max charging.

I apologize for the confusion.

P.S. I keep a copy of that menu with all my latest adjustments penciled in right near the inverters.

[Ronald]

Yes our inverters are the 4024s and it does say max charge 15 amps… that just caught my eye.

Great input…

thanks…

Diane

[Ed]

“This is not usuually a problem at 50AMP locations, but get to a 30 AMP service and your chargers set at 15 amp are using half your service. In that case, lower the charging amps and more importantly remember that it was not the wife’s fault when she tried to heat your soup and coffe in the microwave and suddenly nothing is working right because you popped the breakers.”

That brings up a question that I believe Sawdust and I discussed by email or on the phone. Are both inverters charging? When you adjust the charging amps on each inverter to 15, are you using 30 amps? Or when adjusted down to 5 amps are you using 10?

IF each inverter is using amps to charge then 30 amp service from the pole would be doing nothing but charging batteries if both are set to 15. Of course you can not run 30 amps continuously on a 30 amp breaker but you get the idea. If set to 5 amps it would be using 10 and would not have much power even then for much else…

If both inverters are not charging, which one is charging? Do they work together? Does one take the lead and the other pick up the slack in some manner?

Trying to learn….

DKO

[Archived]

This is a subject area which is mirky at best. Let’s talk about why that is so or at least what I believe to be the reason.

The SW4024 was designed to be used as a stand alone or “stacked in series” We have neither a single stand alone nor a stacked in series system. We have what you will find infrequently referenced as a dual inverter system. It is also les frequently documented in terms of operation and configuration.

As we know, Vantare’ built with a different design philosophy. The result is that Vantare’s treat the inverters, shore power and generator with equal stature and try to maximize the availablility of power. Dual inverters supplied the basic circuit capacity required and that was good. Stacked in series inverters provides an option for running 220/240 VAC appliances and that was not deemed to be necessary. Thus, dual inverters. This is all IMHO.

Now the best I can figure, is that the 41 Motorcaoch software revision was released to compensate for some of the shortcommings created by not installing a stack design. Do I know this? NO! I have observed conditions which lead me to believe that this is the case. For example, if (back in the day) you bought a sw4024 off the shelf, the defult maximum charging would be 30AMP. We have dual inverters which combined default to 30 AMP. There are numerous other similar sets of conditions.

After looking at this again quickly, I think that both inverters are active in the charging process. I know that there is one functional group which is isolated to only one inverter and if my memory serves me, that is generator auto start control

Here is another version of the manuals for the SW series. This one answered lots of lingering questions and I suggest that you make it a club in your warbag.

INVERTERS

[Archived]

“BCO, I wish my batteries were that small!”

They are six volt Interstates, made in St. Charles Missouri.

BCO