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Is This A Glimpse Into Our Future?
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It’s interesting how this thread seems to be focused on the battery aspect of Tesla’s introduction and not about the autonomous driving features.
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It’s interesting how this thread seems to be focused on the battery aspect of Tesla’s introduction and not about the autonomous driving features.
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Andy, we’ll get there, we are just trying to get past the flip-phones. I went from a flip-phone to an I-phone 6 (big jump) when we bought the Liberty so I could access the i-link feature.
Even our new ’17 MKX and ’18 Continental has a feature to keep me in my lane. It will brake automatically and pace the car in front (like the Liberty). Both of these cars have ‘active park assist’ will help you park perpendicular or parallel (haven’t tried that feature yet).
Mark
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I hope everyone here clearly understands we are already sharing the road with driverless cars.
If you are not aware of this you have not been paying attention.
There are now so many people who are screwing constantly with their phones or the connectivity on their wi-fi equipped cars it is a wonder we aren’t wrecking more often.
When those of you embrace this technology and actually are passengers in cars that tell you when you are drifting from your lane, traffic ahead of you is stopping or too close, or that do the parking for you, all I ask is you stay in the slow lane and stay out of my way.
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“When those of you embrace this technology and actually are passengers in cars that tell you when you are drifting from your lane, traffic ahead of you is stopping or too close, or that do the parking for you, all I ask is you stay in the slow lane and stay out of my way.”
All I can add is that after owning four generations of cars with semi-autonomous driving features such as adaptive cruise control, I’ve seen first hand this technology improve with each passing generation. My current daily driver is a 2017 Volvo that incorporates many Tesla-like automated driving features and to say the least, it’s impressive. Not only has the reaction times of the adaptive cruise greatly improved to the point where it can be considered quicker than most human drivers, this generation added an auto steering feature that in many driving conditions allows for hands-free driving for periods up to 15 seconds at a time. I’ll add that as we get older, whether or not we want to admit it, our reaction times slow. Having these driver aids, in my book, is a very good thing for the driver, the passengers and for other vehicles that share the road.
Back in the day when my Dad was teaching me to drive, before I could turn the ignition key, his first two instructions were to fasten my seat belt and turn off the AM radio as it was an unneeded distraction. These days there are so many in-car distractions that I’m not alone in the opinion that having any form of semi-autonomous driving features that have the capability of reacting quicker than humans is considered to be a good thing. We already know that the government has an agreement with automobile manufacturers to have automatic emergency braking systems incorporated in new vehicles by 2022 and it’s expected to greatly reduce the number of rear end collisions.
I’ve said it before on PC and in my videos that when I was shopping for a bus, one feature that I held out for was adaptive cruise control. I spent some time with a Spartan-based model (Entegra Cornerstone) equipped with its collision mitigation system. While the Prevost AWARE adaptive system lacked features found on the Spartan system, I found the AWARE system to be superior when it came to controlling speed, maintaining a safe distance and providing smooth braking. During my Prevost research and shopping period I came to learn this meant the X3 chassis I found desirable had to be a 2012 or newer as whether or not it was included, in most cases it could be retrofitted by Prevost.
In my six month, 7,000 mile ownership experience with a Prevost, the AWARE system provides smooth braking, whether it was during high traffic/slow moving times or even during those situations when an errant driver cuts and weaves in front of the bus at a close distance while at highway speed. In my book, that’s a very good thing. I’ll add that when cruising on the highway, I can caravan behind a truck and maintain a safe distance. A bonus I found was the ability to trail trucks when navigating through mountain ranges in NC and TN. Using the AWARE system I was doing so at safe distances and manageable speeds and most likely safer and using less braking than I could have done without this enhancement.
Considering the strides that Volvo is making in the autonomous arena in passenger vehicles, I can only predict that within five years we will see similar features on Prevost motorhome chassis. However, since the bulk of their business is commercial busses that will have different regulations than private motorhomes, I can only guess they will not be the first motorhome manufacturer to offer a higher level of autonomous features.
However, there’s more to autonomous driving and enhanced safety features than just adaptive cruise and lane keeping assistance and much of this has to do with the driver interface. For example, I previously owned a Hyundai Equus that featured a head-up display that displayed the current speed, blind spot monitoring and GPS turn information. In my opinion, there’s no reason these features cannot be incorporated on busses today as it allows the driver to keep their eyes on the road for longer periods. Jon, I’m guessing your Corvette has a head-up display and I’m sure you can see the benefit of having useful information displayed on a similar device on your bus.
So, when I see a Tesla in my mirrors and knowing it has multiple cameras incorporated into its body that keeps it driving within its lane and act as a buffer to keep it at a safe distance from other vehicles, even if the driver is peaking at his/her phone, I find that more comforting that the driver in a non-autonomous vehicle who’s texting while driving. While laws might not be able to change driver behavior, useful technology, when properly incorporated, can save lives.
There’s no doubt in my mind that autonomous driving technologies are here to stay and the capabilities of these systems are advancing quickly. There’s no doubt in my mind autonomous technology has the capability of reducing crashes, saving lives and in the case of motorhomes, extend the driving day. These are all very good things in my book.
Oh, one more thing relating to the original post regarding Tesla’s truck…
What do you think of replacing the diesel engine with an electric? Hmmm? Could an electric motor greatly decrease the service intervals vs an internal combustion engine? Could the pre-drive check skip the engine bay?
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This may come as a shock, but I actually keep a considerable space between me and the car ahead, I stay in my own lane of traffic, and if I have to park I do it myself.
A Corvette Z06 does not have any of the driverless car features. I actually have an obligation to pay attention and drive. When the time comes for me to have to rely on my car to drive for me I better hang it up.
I have a lot of hours of flying, and my plane was well equipped with an autopilot that flew a lot better than I did. But in 35 years of flying I let the autopilot fly the instrument approach only 3 times, and one was during an engine problem. I hand flew all climbs, descents and approaches because I knew if I did not stay well practiced when the equipment broke I was in serious trouble. The equipment will break. I feel exactly the same way about cars and nobody can convince me the current crop of car and truck steering wheel holders are worth a damn and are only going to get worse as more cars do for them what they need to do themselves.
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Jon,
Q: Is the head-up display in your Corvette a useful method of keeping your eyes forward and seeing relevant driving information?
If yes, would that be a useful application for a bus?
Q: Wouldn’t it be nice not to have to turn your head to view the distance to the next turn on the GPS, see an indicator that someone is in the blind spot and check your speed without having to look down at the gauges?
Will that remove the need to check the mirrors or the gauges? Nope, but in my opinion it would be a helpful method of seeing pertinent information without taking your eyes off the road. To me, that’s a safety feature. There’s a reason Chevy was an early adopter of head-up displays with the Corvette and it seems to be a popular feature on the car. While I’ve never owned a Corvette, I’ve driven a few and it sure was helpful on the track!
When it comes to autonomous driving features, personally I find it a positive move to know that when another driver is distracted that it has the ability to greatly reduce collisions. I won’t speak for you, but it’s typical for reaction times to slow with age and speaking from experience, I’ve seen these systems mature over the past decade to the point where they brake more smoothly and accurately than many drivers. In stop and go traffic, they are a dream!
Using the AWARE system as an example, while it doesn’t take away the ability to manually press the accelerator or service brake, it sure is nice to be able to automatically speed up or slow down with the flow of traffic while maintaining a cushion space that’s appropriate for the speed.
When a feature that is added that keeps the bus in its lane, I don’t know about you, but it may reduce the amount of potential pucker moments when traveling with a concrete barrier to the side or over a narrow bridge.
So, I’ll ask you this: How many times have you been traveling on a highway and seen a tractor trailer veer out of its lane and the over correction allows it to fishtail back into its space? If that driver had a lane keeping assistant it would have most likely kept the truck in the lane. My point is that it’s not always about our vehicle, it’s about the other ones. Personally, I’m looking forward to these enhanced safety features making headway in the motorhome industry. The question is not if it will happen, it’s when…and I’m one who think it’s coming in the foreseeable future.
Regarding Tesla’s truck and others who are seeking to enter the electric vehicle industry, what’s your thought about the electric motor vs a diesel engine when it comes to serviceability? Will an electric motor require a lower level of scheduled maintenance intervals and fewer trips to the service center than a diesel? I’d provide an opinion but this is not an area of expertise for me.
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There is a reason you are the gadget guru and I have a flip phone.
My general answer to all of your comments supporting gadgetry is I believe as a driver it is my responsibility to drive. You may support the features you mention but the reality is the morons your expensive bus shares the highway with are using the features so they can spend more time texting or otherwise screwing with things other than driving. The trucker is a perfect example because there was one in Amarillo that cut me off and then was all over the highway. As his speed fell well below the traffic speed I went around him and watched him texting. Right now I would rather see automated cars driven by monkeys because at least the monkeys haven’t seemed to need to be using the phone.
I will support every feature you espouse if you will agree with me in that every phone and every device people play with in cars today are disabled as soon as the car reaches 5 MPH. Chevy puts those features in cars to sell them to people who want more time to play with the wi-fi, the GPs, the phone, adjust their makeup or eat a big Mac.
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Jon, I do understand where you are coming from, I’m a ‘driver’ as I really enjoy it.
Driving the Continental today (125 mile drive), I let the cruise adjust to the people coming in from the on-ramp on the interstate. I could disengage the cruise but I just let the car do it’s thing. While I’m driving, I’m fully aware of what the car is doing and watching it closely. It’s a very smooth operation.
I also like the lane keeping feature. It’s not that I swerve all over the place but driving some of the back country roads, it’s just extra safety.
The car can detect a vehicle slowing in front of you without the cruise control on. A couple of times someone has cut in front of me over the last couple of weeks. The control sensor flashed a big red light-bar on top of the dash and a loud warning signal.
I really like the back-up safety mechanisms ‘just in case’.
I decided to get rid of our old 1964 antique car earlier this year (owned 18 yrs.) because it had absolutely no safety features whatsoever (not even seat belts). I wasn’t worried so much about my driving, as you have mentioned, the morons out there driving being very distracted concerned me.
Safe travels,
Mark
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Jon, you make some valid points, but things are what they are.
I can turn the clock back and remember what it was like to be stopped in bumper to bumper traffic and late for an appointment or a dinner reservation. You have to admit that it’s nice to say, Hey Siri, Call ___, and speak to the other party using hands free Bluetooth. But do I use the phone while I’m driving the bus? Nope. That’s what the co-pilot is for!
Apple has a feature in its current operating system that can automatically restrict phone usage when it detects its in a moving vehicle. The problem is that you need to activate that feature for it to operate. The technology is there but people are not willing to accept it. There’s laws in a some States that levy fines for texting while driving but in my opinion, the fines aren’t sufficient.
My Volvo, like other newer calls, uses Apple CarPlay. When a text message comes in, it can read the message to me and I can respond verbally without taking my eyes off the road. Is that a distraction? Somewhat. Am I reaching down to touch the phone, look to see who’s texting and attempt to type in a response? Nope.
For nearly 40 years I rode motorcycles, but I stopped riding five years ago after seeing too many instances of distracted driving. Yes, technology is all around us and in many cases it’s worked to our benefit. After all, if we go back to the flip phone days, we wouldn’t have forums such as this one to exchange thoughts and ideas. A bulletin board, maybe, but not a modern forum!
But back to the topic of Tesla’s autonomous driving truck, I honestly feel that many of those features could be a great benefit to motorhome operators.
I’ll look forward to your opinion on the maintenance aspect of an electric motor vs a diesel engine as that falls in your area of expertise.
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That and even if Jon is a good driver…. many people are not. I’d rather have those folks driven around in an autonomous vehicle because we are all going to be safer than when they are kneeing it with a drink in one hand and an iPhone in the other.
I’ve been in a lot of fast cars… and none of them are quite like electric acceleration. Don’t knock it till you’ve tried it. The pull is like your just hooked a rocket already in flight. And stays that way until you let off. Those cars are AWESOMENESS!
But… I guess they’re not for everyone!
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I guess I just cannot consider a car as an appliance and that is where all this is headed.
As to the rush of an electric motor propelling a car, I would guess a jet engined car would deliver a similar thrill and would be about the same practical value as a cross country vehicle. I guess I like the prospect of actually having to participate in the driving by actually having to shift a transmission and coordinate my clutch release with gas pedal actuation and using my cell phone free hand to move a shift lever. Or I suppose as I get older and more senile I could learn to enjoy the thrill of flicking a switch.
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“I guess I just cannot consider a car as an appliance and that is where all this is headed.”
Jon, I think you nailed it with that point. With fully autonomous vehicles on the horizon combined and with ride hailing and sharing services maturing to mass appeal levels, driving and owning a vehicle will be different ten years from now than it is today. The way things are headed, cars could go from being a personal item to a utility that we rent by the trip, hour, week, month or for a limited number of years. Some manufacturers are already adapting this model of car non-ownership and some have already implemented these types of programs. There’s many reason things are going in this direction and while technology has created this situation is only one of the reasons.
– Due to population growth, many cities have grown to the point where there are few options to eliminate traffic problems. Nashville, which was once a small town, is now bursting at the seams and is a prime example. Having fully autonomous vehicles that can track in a caravan function on the nation’s highways at high speeds and exit to deliver passengers to specific destinations could be a viable method of addressing many transportation issues.
– Musk’s concept of hyperloop transportation could be a method of transporting passengers at bullet train speed and do so underground.
– There’s a generation of millennials who have different values than us old guys and don’t have the same dreams of owning a white picket fence house with two cars in the garage. This generation doesn’t seem to share our passion of the pride of ownership and seems to prefer having a fixed overhead vs receiving sticker shock repair or financing bills.
– Service and Convenience: As Tesla has shown us with its current line of passenger cars, many times they don’t need to return to the shop for repairs. In many cases the car’s operating system can be updated while sitting in the garage. Yes, wear items will still require a trip to a service center, but with electric motors with few moving parts, service intervals are greatly reduced.
– Safety: This is the big one. As the technology for fully autonomous vehicles to safely operate and develop the ability to talk to each other while in motion, accidents could become a thing of the past. While I have concerns about hacking, I can only guess these issues are on the forefront of the back room conversations.
– Global Warming (yes, it pains me to write that phrase) is a true concern to some and, while car emissions are cleaner than ever, this generation seems to be focused reversing the things we do today so the earth will be here for the next generation. While the focus today is on electric operated vehicles today, there’s other power sources that could emerge as a cleaner and more efficient alternative in the future.
– Range: Battery technology is entering the “Moore’s Law” phase and we’re already seeing the capacity of batteries increasing every 18 months or so.
Whether you call them an appliance or a utility, the cars we grew up with could become the horse and buggy to future generations. Just like the abacus turned to the adding machine, then the calculator and later the smart phone, things are changing…but it’s starting to seem that it’s going from evolutionary to revolutionary.
This transformation is not going to happen overnight, but there are so many companies (with very deep pockets) working on autonomous technologies to bury our head in the sand to say this is not the shape of things to come. But the signs are there that state we will soon be entering a transportation boom cycle. I have no plans to sell my V-12 naturally aspirated sports car as, in the near future, I may not be able to replace it. But others are correct in that batteries combined with powerful electric motors deliver acceleration that pins you to the back of the seat. Personally, I’ll miss the roar of the exhaust note as that is music to my ears.
Now, getting back to busses, how will Tesla’s efforts change the motorhome industry? I don’t have the long term answer, but within the next decade, and maybe sooner, I think it’s safe to say we’ll see large vehicles that are following Tesla’s lead that could provide viable alternatives to the traditional diesel engine. Tesla may not make it as a business, but they are making strides in being a disruption to a variety of industries.
Back to the topic at hand, there’s a lot we don’t know about Tesla’s truck and one question I have is about the braking systems. Have they developed a way to safely brake a fully loaded semi without the use of air operated systems? We already know the brakes will be regenerative, but few details are known at this point. If so, I’ll leave you with this thought…
What would it be like to own a bus without having air leaks that affect critical systems?
Yup, another long-winded post from yours truly. Enjoy Thanksgiving!
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If you really believe accidents could be a thing of the past you are wrong. The accidents will just be from causes we don’t currently have due to the still prevalent “old” technology.
We come from totally different perspectives and your affinity for gadgets and technology is the polar opposite of my disdain for having to give up control of my car to someone or something else. My manual transmission car is a sign we are heading in the wrong direction because it has paddles to match revs when shifting. That is a true indication we are losing driving skills when a driver has to have the car compensate for his lack of ability.
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Jon, for the Corvette, hasn’t the automatic transmission gained popularity as it’s lighter and faster than the manual?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/08/20/2015-corvette-8-speed-transmission/14352021/
And, I have to ask, do you have any issues with the front air spoiler scraping when entering your steep driveway?
I’m still hoping to get your opinion about the pros/cons of having an electric motor vs diesel engine in a bus.
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An automatic transmission in a car to me would be as unappealing as asking a professional photographer to do his work with a point and shoot camera.
If you do not understand how strongly I feel about automatic transmissions it is apparent we cannot communicate. Driving is more than pushing down on a pedal or turning on the electric. I am stuck with an automatic on the bus. Not my choice.
I not only would not buy a battery powered bus I am opposed to most of the technology the converters jam into the buses which do things in a vastly more complex manner than devices like an old fashioned on-off switch.
But there is a place for technology such as the multiplex systems and the behind the scenes systems that allow huge amounts of horsepower from very limited displacement engines that not only have abundant power, but are delivering it smoothly.
Yes the front of my car is low, but so is the entire car. It does not seem any lower than my 2007 and just like the bus I have to be aware of things like steep driveway entrances or high speed bumps that can scrape the bottom.
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