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House electric issue
I’m sure this is going to be very general. I don’t think it is anything converter specific. But just for information, my bus was converted by Vulcan. It uses a house type breaker system.
The issue is that I have now smoked two flat screen TVs within about 6 weeks. The front TV, above the driver’s seat, was installed last year and worked for months. About 3 weeks ago, I was driving down the road, had the generator and the inverter on. Notice a strange smell. Happened to look up and saw smoke above the stairwell! First thing I did was reach up and turn off generator and inverter. Then you can imagine how quickly I got that bus pulled over on the side of the interstate. When I stepped around the corner, smoke was pouring out of the back of the TV. Luckily, I have it installed with Velcro and breakaway mounts so I could rip it out and pull the cord. No damage other than the TV.
I checked the plug later and everything seemed to be working correctly. I installed a new TV, but this time with a surge protector behind it. Figured if it happened again, the surge protected would flip and not damage the TV, and certainly not start a fire! TV worked great. About 3rd day out, with TV not even on, I noticed the smell again. Same thing! Smoke pouring out of back of TV. Surge protector not flipped.
I have the exact same TV in the back of the bus and never had an issue. Whatever it is, it seems to be on that plug. Or at least I have never had any other appliances fry. Had my invertor checked at Invertor Service a coupld of months ago, and they said it was all good. Any thoughts on what might be causing it. Where do I start my investigation?
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20 Replies
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Have you checked your house voltage? Have you checked voltage into the house circuit breaker box? At the receptacle for the TV in question?
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No. Just checked the output from the inverter. It was good. Need to check the outlet.
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Dale Sounds like your are losing your neutral side intermiitingly , which will casue 220 volts down your 110 leg check and retight your conections. Darrell
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lost neutral and shot 220 to outlet=2 ac and tv Found mine in neutral wire broken
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Thanks ya’ll! That does sound like the answer. I’m heading out to New Orleans tonight, but will check that out when we get back.
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I’m not an electrician, but have a basic understanding of electricity (even thought I can’t see it). Please explain losing the neutral and suddenly getting 220volts. Doesn’t seem logical to me. Thanks!
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when ground wire came loose in shore cord it went to line voltage thru neutral so I had two hot lines in effect running to wall outlet grounding thru safety ground. this can occure several places along path but mine occured in shore line. As far as understanding it all? checked across wall outlets and they read 220 between common and line voltage. Found problem /fixed and the reading went back to 120. I’m still trying to understand at home how my new Split has two line voltage running to it and requires no common. It has been working for 2 years. Have also had elect motor you run two line voltage to and no ground. I know only from a past aw-shoot. easy for anyone to check. I still don’t understand theory of neutral ground bonding! Just follow instructions when I get to power transferr between sources. As you can tell I rely on test equipment rater than a through understanding of what is really happening. Bob
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So, see if this makes sense… The guy tested my outlet and wiring today. Tested 118v at the outlet with the generator running. Slightly less 112 with just the inverter. He then tested the output on the inverter. I don’t remember the number, but he said iit was fine. Then he moved to my auxiliary alternator, since both issues happened while going down the road with just the inverter on. With the engine running, he got 12.2 out of the alternator. Then i cut the engine and still got 12.2. He says my aux alternator is dead, and that’s only batteries. Their prognosis is that low voltage is causing spikes and burning up my TV. That outlet is apparently firstin the chain. It has two wires on each connection. They say that’s why it is only blowing that TV. Does any of that sound right? Also refrigerator and Keurig wont work unless generator is on. They say its all caused by low voltage and replacing alternator will fix it all. They say replacing the alternator will fix it all? Thoughts?
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Dale, the alternator is probably not the only problem. The alternator is plainly bad, as it should be putting out 13.8 or higher, but I don’t see how that causes the TV to burn up. If the house batteries get too low because they are not being charged by your alternator, the inverter should just shut itself off. I don’t know what inverter you have, but the Heart inverter I had in my 1990 bus would shut down if the batteries got to about 11.5 volts. Something else must be causing your TV to get high voltage. Perhaps the broken neutral contact discussed above. It could happen only when you hit a bump, but the testing while stationary does not reveal the problem. The refrigerator and coffee maker should work through the inverter if your house batteries have 12.2 volts, unless running them both at the same time brings your battery voltage down low enough to cause the inverter to shut down. Is your inverter working for any appliance just from the batteries? If not, try re-setting the inverter and see if you can get the fridge to run.
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Another consideration is that some appliances are known to have issues ifr the inverters are not pure sine wave.
If a coach gets updated with newer appliances or electronic devices such as TVs, refrigerators, etc serious consideration should be given to changing inverters to pure sine wave.
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I probably do need to update my inverter. It is an old Trace inverter/charger. Here’s what I can’t understand about the aux alternator being bad… I NEVER run my generator going down the road. But my house batteries always show a full charge when traveling. I have four Group 27 deep cycle batteries, so not a lot of reserve. So I don’t understand how I can go on a 14 hour trip with lights and TV on if that alternator is not charging.
I repeatedly asked about grounds and neutrals. I don’t understand a lot about electricity, but that makes sense to me. They keep saying no. Sadly, I’m in in a time crunch. Leaving tomorrow night.
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Jon, the guy did say something else. He said that there was some switch that would keep my inverter from kicking off at low voltage. I don’t understand what that means. I have a single button on my panel to turn the inverter off and on. It lights red if using inverter power, and blinks if on generator.
On the panel in the bay, there is a switch like a light switch, that says Inverter Circuits. I don’t know why this switch is there, but the inverter won’t work if it is switched off.
On the same panel is another light switch that says radiator fan. It turns off the squirrel cage fan on the generator. I don’t know why I would ever need to do that either.
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Dale, you are describing stuff that is uncommon.
I agree with the analysis the house alternator has puked. If your house voltage remains the same whether the engine is running or not the alternator or its voltage regulator has failed or you have an open circuit somewhere.
My comment was limited to recognizing some devices can be damaged when run on inverter power if the inverter is not pure sine wave. That does not relate to house alternator issues. However, if the house alternator has failed you can still charge the house batteries by running the generator or going to shore power with the inverters on. In that case the inverters are functioning as battery chargers.
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Dale, it’s possible the voltage regulator or something else in your alternator is not working correctly and it really is putting out 12.2 volts. That would pretty much keep your house batteries charged while running down the road without the generator running if they don’t have much load on them. To me, the alternator issues seem unrelated to the TV burning up. The pure sine vs. modified sine could be an issue, but that typically affects the appliance while it is on, not off. It also does not explain why your inverter is not powering your refrigerator from the batteries as it used to do. If there was an overvoltage situation, the circuit breaker for the galley circuit may have tripped. Check that, if you haven’t already. Also be sure to reset the breakers at the galley outlets that have GFI protection. (The little buttons on the face of the outlet between the holes where you plug a cord in) If one of those is tripped at an outlet the entire circuit will be shut down. Check the ones in the bathroom and in the storage bays, too.
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Dale,
is is it possible your guy checked the alternator at idle speeds? If so he thinks the alternator is bad when it may not be.
If if you have the delco SI series like I do (separate 12 volt house alternator on my 93 chassis) this is a self exciting alternator. It will not “turn on” until the engine speed reaches 1300 to 1500 rpm. Once it is on it will stay on. The voltage output is only regulated by speed. At idle this may be about 12.8 volts, at highway speeds it will likely be about 14.1 or 14.2. If he read the voltage after just cranking the engine then he will read battery voltage and is telling you the alternator us bad.
Do not replace the alternator until you check it at speed. no need to ask how I know this.
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