[Larry & Diane]

which model toilet do you have? I would imagine either the flapper is worn or cracked, or the linkage to the flapper needs a slight adjustment to apply a little more pressure…..if this is the toilet I think you have.

[Tom]

Hi Jeff. Not sure on model number, can get it, but no flapper in it that I know of.

[Larry]

Is the toilet a Headhunter?

If it is a Headhunter are you maintaining pressure in the coach water system?

If it is really a Headhunter the inflow is at the bottom of the toilet in line with the drain line. For water to drain from it if the water system is pressurized there has to be a leak between the flush valve and the toilet.

If on the other hand the water pump is turned “off” and the house water system has no pressure it is possible it is backflowing through the flush valve.

[Ken]

Jon, it is a Headhunter. I never leave the water pump on when we are not in the bus. When it is parked, with everything off, after 24-48 hrs, the water will be gone and I get a smell coming out, I can pressurize, flush, water comes back to correct level, it will be good for 1 to 2 days again. When staying in the bus, the toilet is used enough there is always water in it.

How would water backflow thru the jet, the solenoid valve is normally closed.

[Larry]

You did not answer the critical question. When you note the toilet has no water is the coach water system pressurized. More pointedly, if you turn off the pump will the system hold pressure indefinitely?

That is the clue to your problem.

If you flush a Headhunter and look into it while it is flushing you will see a large jet of water spraying beneath the water, toward the drain. As its flow continues it literally draws the contents of the bowl out because it has created a low pressure area and is “pushing” the bowl contents toward the drain piping.

Then when the flushing stops the water level in the bowl is restored.

The reason that is happening is because the toilet has a flush valve that when operated opens and allows a large water flow until it closes. When it closes water pressure on the inlet side holds the seal preventing water flow. I am oversimplifying but at this point the important thing to know is the valve works as intended when it flushes and runs water for a sufficient amount of time, and then closes off the water flow.

But if your water system pressure goes down to zero it is possible water will backflow from the toilet through the flush valve in the opposite direction. In a system set up the way Headhunter intended there will be a large check valve ahead of the flush valve (between the holding tank and the flush valve) that only allows water to flow into the flush valve, but not out of it toward the holding tank.

If you are getting a sense your toilet has drained into the water holding tank, you are correct. That is where it has gone. If you don’t have a check valve get one. If you do have a check valve, replace it because it is likely leaking.

I will stand by my theory on this unless you tell me the toilet contents are draining while the water system is pressurized.

In the meantime, don’t ingest any water in your coach that has come from the coach water system.

As an editorial opinion, the Headhunter designed water system would be so illegal in every state in the nation and in every plumbing code I wonder how it is allowed in our coaches. There is a direct connection as designed between the waste side of the plumbing system and the fresh water supply. A check valve, even one that had an infinite life span and would never fail would still never be allowed as a substitute for an air gap between fresh water and waste water. But I have the same system and I watch it like a hawk to insure I am not getting back flow.

[Archived]

Jon, I did answer your question, when I have noticed no water in toilet, the pump has been turned off, and no pressure on the system. The system will retain pressure for several hours after turning pump off.

I completely understand how the toilet works. I see the water jet, it flushes clean everytime, adds water back to bowl,

solenoid valve closes correctly, there is a check valve in the incoming line to the toilet, every thing is fine. When we leave the bus or park it, we turn everything off including the water pump. After it sits a couple days, no use, water pump off, then there is no water left in the bowl. There is not a leak anywhere in the pressure line from the pump to the toilet jet, no leak between toilet and black water tank.

Now, is water leaking to blackwater tank? That is what I don’t know. Obviously the toilet is higher than the holding tank, what is there to keep the water from draining to the holding tank?

[Archived]

With a Headhunter Toilet, I don’t see how any bowl water could leak downstream (discharge side) and that only leaves water draining back into the pump line when there is no pressure and could end up in the holding tank as Jon pointed out. Suggest checking the inlet check valve that could be allowing bowl water to back flow.

[Darrell]

Great info. Thanks for the heads-up!

[Tradewinds Coach & Marine]

Tom, what stops the water from draining downstream, to stop it, there would have to be a p trap or something.

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Tradewinds Coach
Kyle Bennett (Service)
Brian Miller (Sales)

[Sid]

My headhunter did the same thing, it was the rubber elbow when you look down in the toilet that was leaking, about 1500 elbow

[Archived]

Larry,

Assuming no leaks in the supply side of the toilet line, I strongly suspect your toilet contents is back flowing into the fresh water tank. The drain side has a trap which prevents the toilet from draining to the holding tank The drain system is vented so you can’t have a siphon pulling the bowl contents downstream to the holding tank.

But you can have a siphon drawing the bowl contents backwards into the fresh water tank. The solenoid in the flush valve is not the part that shuts off flow. The flush valve is opened by the solenoid tipping the diaphragm in the flush valve off the valve seat. Then water flows into the toilet until pressure on both sides of the diaphragm is equalized (by a tiny orfice allowing flow) at which point the flush valve closes. The pressure of the water system holds a tight seal. I suspect the check valves in both the toilet water supply line as well as the water pump check valve both are allowing water to back flow. The water in the toilet bowl is then siphoned back into the holding tank.

I don’t know how Vantare set up your water system but you can prove or disprove what i am saying. Shut off your pump after the toilet is filled. Drain the fresh water tank. Disconnect the line to the pump at the tank and set it so you can collect any water that comes out of it after it has drained.

Add a bright food coloring to the toilet bowl contents. Red, Green, Blue, whatever you choose and wait until the toilet has drained. If the water you catch has that color in it you need to replace a couple of check valves.

Oh, and you seriously need to sanitize your entire coach water system.

[Sid]

Jon, I have been doing some other maintenance on it today, but I looked at the plumbing and there is a valve inline to cut water supply off, I’ll try that first since that is the easiest to do, good advice about sanitizing, I usually do a flush with chlorine every time before we use the bus.

[Larry]

Then you may have both the ability to stop the toilet from emptying into your holding tank, and possibly even maintaining water system pressure with the pump turned off. That depends on where the valve is located and if my long winded explaination was correct.

If the valve is downstream from the pump, but ahead of everything else, shutting the valve should retain water system pressure and verify the pump check valve is leaking. If it is solely to isolate the toilet supply line, closing it should stop the toilet bowl from emptying.

Let us know because there are a lot of Headhunter toilets installed in coaches and everyone needs to understand what the potential is for the owners to be brushing their teeth using water from the holding tank.

[Bob]

The piping is from pump, check valve, ball valve, solenoid valve, then toilet.

So I can cut ball valve off and retain pressure on solenoid valve. If it does retain pressure and water level in toilet does not change, then that should show that the check valve is leaking.

It will be Wednesday before I get back working on it. Going tomorrow for Doc appointment and picking up new Jeep toad.

[Dana]

Keep us posted Larry, this is important stuff..