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Excalibur Coach in Sanford FL
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Larry,
Do some screen shots of those texts and other proof. You can probably get the paperwork to file small claims online. I beleive you can file in your county so that he bears the difficulty of getting to court instead of you. Fill it out, send a copy with those texts and the bills from Allison to Doug and ask for a full refund plus expenses to get it fixed. If he doesn’t answer fast enough, file and let the judge tell him. Sometimes small claims court can be fun.
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Wow Larry,
That has been a total nightmare for you but so glad you are fixed and running again.
I can’t believe that ANY company would do what has been done to you… crappy workers is BS in my opinion, crappy ownership is more like it…anyone working on this type of coach would NEVER have idiot people working for them and as the BOSS you would be overseeing the job anyway…. hmmmm just saying !!
You should send a demand letter to the owner along with a copy of the bill from Detroit/Allison and tell him to pay up!! I would also report him to the BBB (Better Business Bureau).
Good luck and we all hope you are re-imbursed !!
It would be great if you could come and meet these great folks here on PC at the OKC No Rally Rally in Sept. there are a lot of coaches signed up already, I think you would really enjoy meeting everyone.
Cheers, Diane
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I did receive a refund check for my transmission service from Excalibur Coach in the mail today for $750. At least that will help towards some of the repair.
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I sure wouldn’t settle for that. If it says “Paid in Full” don’t cash it. Send it back with a demand for the full amount.
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the check just states: reimburse transmission service.
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Then cash it, hope he didn’t stop payment, and follow through on the other suggestions to get the full amount.
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Just as Jeff’s shop in Tennessee is benefiting from all the great comments here on PC community, Excalibur WILL feel the pain of 1,400 members who now have heard Larry’s story. Being a business owner myself, as many here are, it would be a very very small price to pay to simply refund ALL the money spent by Larry. It’s a different world out there and all one has to do is a google search on excalibur and these threads will come up.
I would spend some time posting on other sites too. Sorry it had to work out this way.
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All of us that have been in business have screwed up at one time or another. I hope everyone realizes this thread is no longer about a business that messed up, but how a business can make the customer whole.
From my experience I have learned when I messed up the easiest and best way to satisfy the customer was to ask that customer to tell me specifically what I had to do to correct the problem. Then I tried to do a little more over and beyond what the customer wanted because the customers I dealt with in that way never asked for enough. They were always understanding that mistakes happen and were always fair in what they requested.
I am surprised this has gone this long without any attempt to correct the problem, especially since it has taken some very expensive repairs just to get the coach back to the way it was.
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I have tried to stay out of this tread but a fairly decent friend to the Prevost Community and I don;t mean this website is getting raked over the coals for things that are not being told. I was at Excalibur for a front end remoldel I was there when Larry arrived and was still there after he left, watched most of what was done to his coach. Started out with a engine and trans service, yes the coach was on rear ramps and yes they did turn the wheels with the engine running to reatache a frt mud flap but they turned just like one would expect, they had been adding fluid to the system thinking there was an air bubble somewhere. Yes there was some confussion on one of the cruise airs that was worked on we found that after Larry tried to leave the first time, he got to I-4 and lost power steering was able to return to Doud’s with a lot of extra effort but made it back safely. We pluged him back in and descovered the front cruiseair was still not right already mentioned that The next morning he was checked for fluid leaks thinking fitting blown hose whatever nothing found so they went for the pump and that was the problem just seemed like bad timeing next came a flush and refill of the engine to rid it of the Hyd fluid that was dumped by the bad pump and no they did not use OEM filters but no where other than the dealer does unless specified, some are probably better than others but all meet a certain standard. The transmission issue is a little blown out of reality this is a known issue with the allison trans, there is even a service bulletin from Allison advising of the dissimular metal steel bolts aluminum houseing stripping or pulling the treads out when removed it happens alot more than we would like, why do you think they have a repair kit? After Doug found out about the problem he set up an apt at Detroit Allison in Orlando but Larry went to Ocala instead. Doug has been in the Prevost bussines for about 30 years and Excalibur has been in bussines for over 10 the man has a very deep knowledge of what he’s doing they worked long and hard on Larry’s coach was it all perfect probably not but was there any entent to screw over the customer, never! I have known Doug since Oct of 2007 I consider him a very good friend and a very honest person who will make this thing with Larry straight if given a chance been told there has been very little talk back and forth must be too busy posting damning chatter on here and POG. Like I said just wanted to give view from someone that was there and saw what actually went on. One other thing we are talking about a used coach and a first time bus owner who might be a little overwhelmed, I know he’s a pilot but these are different animals, Thanks for alowing the soap box, Bill
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Bill,
At no time did Doug ever make me an appointment with Detroit/Allison in Orlando. Doug sent me a text with the phone number of a field service tech in Orlando and said I could talk to him. That’s it. No appointment . No standing behind their work. If I’m the one paying for it I’ll take it anyplace I want. I live by Ocala. I had used Ocala before with other coaches and they did a good job. Yes, this is my first Prevost, but I have owned diesel coaches for 25 years. I have flown and maintained jets for 35 years and also owned and operated my own trucking company. There is nothing overwhelming about a Prevost bus to me. The point is the bolts were stripped and they were over torqued after being serviced by Excalibur. Yes, there is a problem with the bolts. But as Allison will tell you the primary cause of this is when the bolts are over tighten. Example being: Excalibur over tighten them and when Allison removed them the treads came out. The treads did not come out when Excalibur removed them. They came out after Excaliur over tightened them. They just kept adding and adding Fluid to the steering with no idea how much the system held. They did not re assemble the power cord correctly, they didn’t grease all the fittings, they left the coach greasy. This is not what I call acceptable maintenance. Doug does have a wealth of knowledge, but the guys turning the wrenches don’t. I had the service bullleton completed at Allsion for the bolts. To this date, Excalibur coach has made no offer of restitution for anything they screwed up on my coach.
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Bill is a long time owner and a pretty savvy guy, but I do have to take exception to his observation about the Allison filter bolts. He is correct in that Allison has a problem, they recognize it, and on transmissions without the upgrade there is a kit available to dealers for the repair of stripped threads.
However, I have changed my transmission fluid on the six speed transmissions at least 4 times now and know that if the Allison torque values are observed there is not going to be a problem. Stripped threads occur when the filter bolts are overtightened. Ditto with the drain plug.
As a general comment not specific to this event, our coaches have some “gotchas” that service centers and repair shops need to know and understand. The transmission bolt torque is one example. Another is overgreasing the slack adjuster shaft on Meritor disc brake equipped coaches. Another is failure to insure bearing lube after a hub seal replacement. My point is preventable mistakes happen and the best thing for all concerned, shop owners and bus owners is to have anyone that works on a coach aware of those recurring problem areas and insure they don’t happen. It is all about training, and when that fails it is all about making it right.
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I have been following this thread and reading comments about what happened. The one tool that has been responsible for more stripped threads is pictured below. It’s not the removal but the install under air pressure as the tech has no feel of what happening when the bolt meets the thread.
Most experienced techs have learned the hard way that when working around aluminum forged components the hand held ratchet is the tool of choice.
My advice to anyone having transmission service is to insist ‘ NO AIR TOOLS ALLOWED”
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I just saw that I received a login to this blog. I do not intend on getting into an online argument and do want to explain our side of this.
Allison has published a Service Information Letter about the known problem with the aluminum threads. It is common knowledge not to use an impact when removing the bolts and torque them to spec’s. We did just this. The coach was here for several days after the service and even made it halfway to his house and back and was not leaking fluid with about 3 hours run time.
I called Orlando FDDA and got an Estimate #1050023 for $1,068.56. I asked the customer to call Rodney at FDDA. I spoke to Rodney about the Orlando facility repairing this due to the fact of their vast knowledge and high volume with this problem. I asked Larry to call Rodney to discuss the repair. Larry chose not to call him and used another branch. At that point I refunded the full amount for the service. The fact of the matter is, I feel whoever would of serviced that transmission would have had the same result. It cannot be discounted that the threads may have been damaged when I received it. Florida Detroit deals with this on a regular basis. Call Rodney at FDDA or any facility and they will tell you this can happen.
The coach in question was previously owned by another client of ours for 7 years and they are still great clients. I spoke to them this morning! He said he will be using my shop on his next coach. I told this client about what was going on and he asked how he can get on this blog to put his 2 cents in about my shop and also Larry worked for him! So look for Ed to be commenting.
You all as business owners can understand not being given the chance to reconcile a problem is frustrating! You are being told different that I did not respond, that is just not true! We have MANY clients in 10 years at Excalibur and I have many in 30 years that will tell you, I do my best and we do stand behind our work.
I am sorry Larry did not call the person I suggested at FDDA to get the transmission fixed. I was shocked Larry did not call me and tell me everything that I read online so we could have reconciled. I regret finding out about it from a client that read it online and called me.
Even after not being given the chance to reconcile and now being slandered on this blog I am still man enough to try and make it right with Larry!
Respectfully,
Doug
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I agree no air tools are used!
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Just for the record, Jon and I would never allow a business or individual to be slandered on this forum, whether the business was an advertiser or other, such as Doug at Excalibur. This post by Larry was allowed to stay because there are obvious problems, not made up or phony claims.
We applaud Doug for coming on the forum and state his side of the issue and trying to come to a resolution.
Let’s hope both parties can sort it all out, but this whole issue will not be swept under the rug as on other sites.
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