[Davy]

I apologize to everyone. I should have know that this group would be no different that those I have encountered with the POG’s or the Prevost Prouds.

I have tried to explain my troubles with clarity and you like to turn it into my fault. Just because I trust a company to work on my coach and they charge me for the trouble-shooting they did and the parts they replaced and they fail does not mean they should not be paid or I should insist they continue to work on a problem they can’t find. I have asked all the right people for help (Bill Jensen and others at Prevost and the DD reps at the FMCA and other rallies) and all have failed me. I do most of the repairs on my coach so I do what I can but this is an issue that someone who understands the DDEC 1 understands. Nearly all of these folks are dead. I did get an suggestion here that some might be able to help either with a new (different) ECM and from someone who suggested they might be able to help take it back to mechanical but neither of these offers of help have seen any follow through.

It’s about right that someone would suggest I don’t deserve to have a working Prevost and should buy a plastic coach. I just want what I have, and love, to work properly. I am not sure why you find that to be something that would be twisted back to me. I am over my head. I bought a coach I should have been able to depend on and paid good money for it even though it was 11 years old at the time of purchase. Then, do to no ones fault other than my own, I lost all my money in the stock market drop back in 2000. Now, I just need to keep going with what I have. No one will take this coach in trade (and we have tried) so I just reach out from time to time when I think I have found a new resource. I reached out, I tried to explain what I have and have not done and the real experiences I have had only to find the waters to be shark infested. I will never understand the hostility found when anyone says anything negative about this brand or service but maybe you never see it when you can simply write a check to make it go away.

I would like to say it’s been fun…….

[Bill]

Bill,

First, I don’t mind PC being compared to other groups even though you made the remark as an insult. Have you considered that maybe if we are all alike that maybe, just maybe, we also might all be right with respect to the help offered to solve your poblems. That’s the trouble with free advice, it is worth what you pay for it. We can only generalize and throw out ideas. You have to sort through it. But don’t get mad at us because you have problems. We did not create them.

I’d offer to refund double your membership fees, but it is likely you can’t see the humor in that. I can tell you that regardless of age, from the oldest to the newest Prevost the cost to maintain and repair a Prevost is exactly the same so while someone with a million dollar Prevost will see the costs you incurred as annoying, someone in your shoes sees those costs as a very serious and intolerable expense. That is why Mark offered what I consider reasonable afvice, not to piss you off, but to reflect the comparative costs of ownership.

I am sorry for your problems, but it seems like we cannot help.

[Robert]

Yes, Jon and Di, I get the sacrasm humor. It’s actually my strong suit and it gets me in a lot of trouble.

So, what say we all take a deep breath, exercise a bit of Kumbaya, and start over again. Remember this topic started taking about Chinese / Comunnist batteries (despite the fact that we all drive Socialist buses) and I was simply sharing my experience with this product. Things somehow (I know, by fault, too) went sideways from there.

Please understand that I have been dealing with this engine power issue for at least 10 years and have spent lots and lots of money with only one desire……I just want my home to work right again. This is my home. Everything I own and love is in this bus. It was completely remodeled and updated in ’94 by Rick Oaks who we later learned was nicknamed Pump and Dump by Country Coach. I sure looked great but when you look under the skin……

In any case, we have fixed what needed to be fixed, we have remodeled and redone the coach to fit our personal needs. She just needs a working engine so I can get it painted and continue our travels into the sunset.

It’s just that everytime I find a new potential source of info I jump in with both feet. I guess I just need to chill and dish out the info a piece at a time.

[Archived]

Maybe we are reaching a milestone here.

If you have lived with the engine issue for 10 years it cannot be that big a deal. But I understand when stuff doesn’t work it needs to be fixed, and it is frustrating when the fix is not simple, cheap or forthcoming. Your engine answer may be in the form of a complete engine swap. I know of at least two guys on this forum and the BNO and BCM forum as well that now are running Series 60 engines with other than Allison transmissions with success. I believe both their engines are late model DDEC and were from wrecked trucks.

As to the AC, I got to thinking your answer might be to just replace the condensers with rebuilt units. I did that on my 87 coach after I had a compressor lock-up and it was relatively cheap and I had units that came from AAP so I knew they were as new.

[Bernie]

Also, I think AAP is the only source for the supply of parts for Cruiseairs.

You’ll get a lot of people trying help here Bill, providing the exchange is civil. Sounds like you’ve already figured that out.

[Bill]

Bill,

Not sure where you are, but if you make it to Florida send me an E-mail and I would be happy to look at your 8V92. I have had alot of success with performance issues and no, it will not cost you a dime ! I enjoy the two stroke Detroits and may be of some help to you. If not you will not be out any $$$$.

Just let me know.

[Archived]

Bill,

I reread this entire thread and can only suggest that you don’t let the opinions of a few sway your participation. Like most forums, this one appears to have members of all walks of life and some have very strong opinions.

Some are pilots, where failures in the sky can mess up an otherwise great day. Others may opt to significantly reduce the chance that something failing while in operation. Of course, not every one can afford to do so or they don’t see the value of doing so. To each their own.

There are some of us, I’m not sure how many, that do not perform maintetnace and replacement actions before their time. Personally, unless directly related to the safe operation of my bus or a an inexpensive action, I tend to wait using the manufacturers maintenance or replacement schedule. As an example, I replaced all fan clutch related relays of which there are 3 on my bus. This cost me $10 and 10 minutes of work. The fan is critical and keeping servicable relays is dirt cheap. Just an FYI, the low speed fan relay is the hardest working of the three and one that did fail on me in the past. As another example, I inspect my tires all of the time and use Michelin’s guidance on inspections beyond 5 years. I replace my tires at about 7 seven years, unless they NEED replace,ment sooner, and only with Michelins. That’s 2 years later than some prescribe and 3 years before Michelin says they are unservicable. When it comes to batteries, they are replaced as a group, but not until one is apparently quickly approaching end of life.

I subscribe to a simple rule and that is what is right for me might not be right for others and would hope others subscribe to the same. When it comes to safety, I’ll try to inform with facts on why someone might consider changing their ways. otherwise I don’t really care what you do.

[Robert]

Robert, thanks very much for the offer. That is overly generous. I won’t be heading East in the near future but never say never. We do know that it is not the engine, manifolds, turbos, injectors or anything else related to the physical engine. We had the engine replaced with a rebuild a number of years ago rather than do a rebuild and the same lack of performance exists. The engine runs great at idle (but it sounds different), it runs great at 75 on the flat lands, it’s just when we need the torque (hill climbing, getting started from a stop, etc) that we have any issues.

[Paul]

Gil, thanks for the post. Sorry my frustration about poor Prevost service and my own personal issues set things on the wrong course. I love my ride (my home, my only possessions) and I just keep grapping at straws in hopes I will find that one person with the magic to restore my home to its original glory.

[Jim/Chris]

Hey Gil, this is just semantics, but when I replace good parts such as brake chambers, batteries, air bags, etc. I call it maintenance. When I wait for them to fail and then replace them I call it a repair.

My problem is nothing ever needs repair when the bus sits in the garage. It is always out in some remote area on a weekend so I am spending money before I have to spend money.

[Archived]

“Battery temperature, (High temperatures dramatically shorten life.).”

Can you expand on this a little? Temp in the containment area of the batteries? or the temps of the batteries themselves?

How high of temp? Does a one time spike ruin a battery? or does it have to be extended.

Thanks!

[Archived]

Dick, heat is the enemy of batteries. Additionally the charge has to be adjusted to compensate for temperature.

Not only is the charge affected, but the battery iself really should be in a moderate temperature environment. Some batteries, gel cell in partricular, will fail because unlike conventional lead acid batteries the electrolyte cannot circulate to dissipate the heat.

Our converters do a good job relative to the original equipment batteries making sure they are in the proper environment. Where things go wrong is when an owner changes the type of battery from the original and it turns out the location is not ideal. My original coach had all lead acid batteries, but they were on racks above the chassis batteries in the engine area. They tolerated the heat, but other types would have a short life in that location.

[Dave]

Temperature affects every aspect of battery life and
performance. The life of a lead-acid battery is reduced by 50% for every
sustained 15^oF rise above the standard temperature. The
“standard” temperature is 77^oF, 80^oF, or 68^oF
depending upon the class of battery and the manufacturer. Example:
77^oF rated battery with a 10-year design life operated at 92^oF
will yield a battery life of 5 years.

Lead-acid batteries are non-linear devices; thus we can’t say
that five years at 92^oF plus 5 years at 62^oF gives us an
average of 77^oF and therefore the high temperature time was negated
by the low temperature time. High temperatures are far more detrimental
then low temperatures are beneficial as far as battery life goes. For
instance a 15 ^oF sustained rise in temperature with reduce battery
life by 50%, but a sustained 15 ^oF decrease in temperature will increase
life less than 10%.

Ideally, batteries should be kept in a temperature-controlled
environment. Obviously, this isn’t
practical in a bus or RV. What this
really means for us is that we are very unlikely to achieve the rated design
life of the batteries we use in our bus or RV.

There is a chart and formula listed in IEEE Std. 450-2010 that can be
used to calculate the design life of a flooded lead-acid battery in various
temperatures. I would do this calculation
for work, but not for my RV batteries.

Specific answers:

• “Battery temperature, (High temperatures dramatically shorten life.).” See above
• Can you expand on this a little? Temp in the containment area of the batteries? or the temps of the batteries themselves? Battery temperature, specifically battery electrolyte temperature. The physical construction of a lead-acid battery is somewhat like a cooler or thermos; therefore, the electrolyte temperature lags changes in ambient temperature.
• How high of temp? Technically, anything over the standard temperature is detrimental to life. The actual affect depends upon time and temperaure.
• Does a one time spike ruin a battery? or does it have to be extended. Extended, within reason of course.

Bottom line: The cooler we keep our batteries, the longer the life we’re likely to get from them.

Mike

[Harry]

Bill,

From what you are describing I may have the answer for you. It is a simple plug and play and may just be the FIX. Again, if it does not help you can send it back to me and you will only be out the return shipping. About $5.

I will send you an E-mail with my phone number and we can discuss it.

[AL]

Mike, well put. This is the biggest reason, although not the only reason, I would question the understanding of battery systems to those converters that found it necessary to put the house batteries in the engine bay. I saw what otherwise appeared to be a well built and designed coach. They put 8 8D batteries on the right side of the engine bay. This is not only far too warm, but effectively limits air circulation to the engine and it’s components. There is a reason why the right side engine door is vented.