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Balancing Powder, Stay away from it!
So I got tires put on last June. Without my knowing, the shop put the balancing powder in the tires they were doing (2 steer and 4 drive tires). At the time, they failed to install the proper valve cores. This was an issue as I found out why they need the special valve cores as I was 3000 miles away from where I had them installed.
Got back in late summer and had the tire company come out and “fix” their issue with new valve cores. This worked, but only for a while. Found that one of the front steer tires valves was gummed up again and wasn’t holding pressure when I removed the cap (this is another reason to have metal caps with seals, or pressure sensors with seals, it’s one last safety measure to keep air in your tires is the cores fail).
So to get the problem fixed for good, I am now at C&D Tires up by East Tennessee Luxury Coach getting all six tires unmounted, the balancing sand vacuumed out, rims cleaned and new valve stems installed.
So if you are getting new tires put on, make sure to tell the shop not to use the “magic fairy dust”! It’s not worth it and it doesn’t work. Oh ye, that’s right, even with it the tires were never “balanced”.
Spend the money and get centramatics installed on all three axles. They work and dont interfere with the valves holding air.
Pics of what the mess is.
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27 Replies
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Isn’t the tire installer supposed to put special screens on the inside of the wheel to keep the “magic dust” from interferring with the valve stems? Was this not done? Or was it done and one or more screens failed to do their jobs?
By “magic dust” I presume you mean “ceramic beads”. Correct?
I had new tires installed at Jeff’s last April/May and the beads were put in. I think by C&D. I presume it was done correctly.
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Dick, The original place put in standard stems and cores. The cores that are supposed to be used, have screens on them to keep them from getting the sand into the actual core.
The first round of failure was that the cores were getting jammed up and leaking due to the incorrect cores. They replaced the cores after I got back from my trip. However those cores are now starting to fail. not sure if the stem is supposed to be special or not. From looking around on the internet, I could only find specific cores for the balancing powder.
This is a fine dust like powder. comes in a plastic bag that the bag (two actually) are put in the tires at time of mounting the tires. As the tire rotates, the bags break and the power is supposed to “balance” the tire as you are running down the road. besides the powder causing the valve cores to fail, the powder never did what it was supposed to do. The tires gave a VERY rough, unbalanced ride.
I had centrimatics (metal discs with ceramic beads in an outer ring) installed at Jeff’s last fall. These go between the hub and the rim (or between the rims on the drive axle). Same kind of concept as the balancing powder, the rotation of the tire causes the beads to automatically balance them as they are rolling. They work. The ride down to Florida and back (twice actually) was smooth as you can beleive. Well worth the money and you never need to pay for “balancing” again. Supposed to reduce wear allowing for the tires to last longer. Truckers swear by them. Some claim a massive increase in mileage then without.
If you had Jeff/C&D do the work, then I would bet your have centramatics and that’s the best way to go. As I mentioned C&D wont use the powder unless it is asked for. and I think they use something that isn’t as fine as the stuff that was out into my tires.
Part that really sucks? is that I now need to pay a different shop to fix the first shops screwup/failure.
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Had Centramics installed last fall on drive and tag and love them. Having them installed on steers next month at Jeff’s on the way north. Geo.
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There is a big difference in the “powder”
http://www.imiproducts.com/products/equal/
and the ceramic beads
http://www.innovativebalancing.com/
DynaBeads used in 22.5″ tires are large enough that they do not require special valve stem filters and being beads and not powder, it does not clump. It is a widely used product with a very good history.
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Here is the Centramatic web site…on top of home page under VIDEOS they show how Centramatic balancers work.
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I don’t have a dog in the fight, but don’t feel balancing media are a bad thing.
The bad thing is a stupid dealer whose employees apparently are clueless.
There are numerous brands of balancing media and I have used several with success. The key however is to put in the correct amount, and to use only valve stem cores with mech filters or screens.
They are applied by the bagful which is the prescribed amount and placed in the tire before it is aired up. It will break and distribute the media as necessary to produce a smooth ride. The valve core needs to the screen to keep the valve core seal leak free.
I have used Equal for about 17 years with no issues and was very satisfied. I use Centrimatics now because the coach came with them and see no difference in quality of balancing.
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As far as valve caps, the best ones are aircraft valve caps. They are brass and a 3/8 wrench fits them. When they are tight they will hold air even if the valve core was missing. They can be purchased from Aircraft Spruce and Specialty. Aircraft Spruce Part Number 2525 MS20813.
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but you cannot fill a tire without removing them and that expands the complexity of the topic of tires because without ease and simplicity in filling tires owners put valve stem extensions on the inner drive tire, trading ease of filling with the risk of valve stem or valve stem extension failure..
Since I switched from the hex shaped valve stem valve caps to the fill through the cap type i almost always add air to my tires due to outside temperature changes, not loss due to leakage
https://www.alltiresupply.com/product/double-seal-cap-inflate-thru-valve-cap-50box
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Another plus for the fill through’s Jon noted is when using Pressure Pro’s with 365 wheels. The valve stem hole is usually too small for the Pressure Pro, so adding one of these very short fill through’s gets the job done.
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Sorry to see you had so much trouble Charles….powder stuff does not seem like a great idea.
I just had Jeff’s tire guys rotate mine, rip off the lead weights and I threw in CounterAct beads. I previously had about 150K miles experience with them on my last rig, they work great, heard Dynabeads are ok as well.
I am about 7000 miles in now, smoother, even wear, never had any issue with counter act which is what a lot of the truckers are running now.
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I just don’t get this…… putting in 2 bags of “pixie dust” inside a tire. Second, paid labor to remove rim from bus, break 8 beads, change 8 valve stems and then install 8 wheels back on bus. Air everything back up, cross your fingers and pray to bus gods everything seals back up.
If you have a flat and it’s repairable you have an issue with all this stuff inside tire. If you need air ..Now worry about valve not accepting air and then not sealing, because its restricted.
Do owners need to carry spare bags, spare valve stems, spare valve cores, in case of a malfunction ?
It just seems so simple to install the Centramatic ring knowing if there is a problem we don’t have another problem.
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Didn’t know you had to have this ring or powder to balance your tires vs. the way passenger vehicle tires are balanced, but something I guess I have to ask about when looking at a Prevost.
So much great info on this site ….
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You do not need either to get a tire balanced. Lead weights and a spin balancer are still how the majority of tires are balanced. However, the Centramatics do a better job over the life of the tire. Beads are also used by some and they report good results. I ran my XLII for over 4 years before I bought Centramatics. I like them so far, and they will be on my next coach as well.
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Does Centramatics last beyond the life of the tires, or better put, what’s the life-span of Centamatics?
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Everybody can balance their tires as necessary and in a manner that they feel is OK.
There is no one best method.
Weights will not do long term balancing. One sudden stop and it is likely the tire will slip on the rim. A Prevost owner had a new set balanced and installed and as an experiment ran a mark from the tire to the wheel. He then did a hard stop. The marks were no longer lined up after the stop. But even if that never happens keep in mind balancing with weights does not balance the entire rotating mass. It balances the tire and wheel but does not balance the hubs or brake discs or drums.
Pixie powder or balancing media works well because it does balance the entire rotating mass, including the brake drums and hubs. It needs the proper amount installed and it needs to have the screened valve cores that come with it installed. An owner using it has to use a very simple technique to avoid any issues with the material getting under the valve core seal. The tire pressure should be checked using the combination pressure gauge and air valve. Push the tire chuck on to the valve stem to read the pressure, and even if the pressure is perfect, before removing the chuck from the valve stem give the tire a short blast of air, which clears the valve core seat of any debris.
Centramatics work exactly like balancing media. The difference is the media is contained within a ring on the outside perimeter of the “discs” which mount behind or between the coach tires. If it was not for their costs everyone would be using this type of balancer. A tire balanced with a bag of loose media has a cost of about $12, and the same cost using Centramatics is about $75 or slightly more per tire. You would have to change or service tires about 6 times to justify the cost. And no one method is without it’s issues. I have had Centramatics fail, but the company stood behind them and replaced them at no cost to me.
I have used weights (never again), balancing media, and I now have Centramatics. I would be using pixie dust if the coach dod not come with Centramatics because of ease of use and cost.
Tiure repair methods are not affected by any of the methods of balancing.
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