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Anyone know this bus?
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We bought a 1999 Liberty in April of 2014 with no records. Let me try to enlighten you with our experience.
I had negotiated with the original (from new) owner back in November/December of 2013, but lost out to another buyer from the Knoxville area where the coach was kept. The original owner had it in his business located in SW Michigan which he had just sold. He had a second home on a large lake near Knoxville which is why the coach was there. The second owner then put it up for sale in March of 2014. He told me they had a newer 45′ Mountainaire with four slides, had always wanted a Prevost, bought the Libery with no slides, and his wife liked the four slides and didn’t like the Prevost.
The second owner had no records (I quite frankly was unsure if he know what he had). The original owner had told me he’d try to find records, but couldn’t find any. I’ve come to learn that if the coach is owned in a business, the records seem to stay with the business and get pitched after seven years. All we knew is that the coach had spent five weeks at Liberty in North Chicago in 2012 for something. Jeff Rowe recalled seeing the coach at Buddy Gregg’s in Knoxville when he worked there early in its life. I was able to find out from a friend of the original owner that it had been serviced at a big truck dealership in northern Indiana when the coach was in the SW Michigan area; the original owner had lost of big trucks and was a very regular customer of the truck shop.
So … after talking to Jon here on the PC, George Prentice, and Jeff Rowe the presumption was that nothing had been really updated on the coach unless it presented a “problem”. I was able to get information from the truck shop in Indiana about when they performed routine maintenance on the coach … oil, filters, trans lube, trans filters, generator oil/filters, that kind of stuff. Buddy Gregg service was able to tell me the same thing … but only back two years because they were on the third computer system in four years and didn’t have any old information. Based on dates and mileage on the filters and what I learned from the truck place, very, very few miles had been put on the coach that last five years. I could find no evidence of air bags, Norgren valves, brake accuators, etc. being replaced.
A mutual friend of the original owner and the second owner was in the middle of negotiations trying to help his “friends” get the coach sold. The original owner also had a “very handy fella” taking care of his toys in TN including the coach and anything that went wrong with the coach got fixed right away.
I engaged Jeff Rowe to inspect it with me. His shop was only 18 miles from where the coach was stored inside. Because the second seller had no insurance on the coach we couldn’t drive it. But the tires were so old Jeff didn’t want to drive it very far or very fast.
Jeff found a list of small to modest things wrong with the coach; nothing that surprised him. One CruiseAir didn’t work I think was the biggest. He was able to decipher that a drive axle bearing was leaking (probably from inactivity). He told me that once he got it up on his lifts and spent some time underneath I should be prepared for more issues. He also said that absent any records, I should plan on zeroing everything out now. I was prepared for $20K to zero everything out and another $10K for tires and batteries which were at the end of their useful lives. Which is within two or three hundred of what I actually spent.
Once on the lifts Jeff found that the coach had been “abused” (my term). The driveshaft loop had been pushed again the driveshaft. Apparently this is the result of no allowing the coach to air up completely and driving off and/or cutting a corner too short and having the rear tires straddle a curb. Fortunately this didn’t cause any real damage to the drive shaft or the drive line. Jeff straigtened the loop.
He also discovered that the bus air (OTR) wasn’t cooling like it should. Fortunatley Jeff is certified on those systems and the fix was relatively simple.
So here is what I concluded. Most of the “things that were promptly taken care of” on the coach were really cosmetic. It hadn’t been used much in the last five years. Much of the mileage in the last five years that was put on was moving the coach from SW Michigan to TN and then the round trip to North Chicago!
We’ve used the coach three times since taking delivery at Jeff Rowe’s shop (I had quadruple bypass in late June which dampened our use of it). We had a six month old Interstate chassis battery fail three weeks ago, which Interstate replaced in full under their warranty. Other than that, any problems we’ve had with the coach were caused by our naivete in how to operate, care, and feed the coach. Its a learning experience.
If you’re buying a coach with no records and you think you’re going to drive it home, take it to a truck repair shop for routine maintenance (fluids and filters), and enjoy it for three or four years I think you’re mistaken. If you don’t have someone who knows Prevost conversions, preferably Liberty coach in our cases, you’re going to send someone to school on your nickel.
If you want to follow up with me and get more details on our experience and what I learned about pricing during our experience looking for a coach, give me a call. 262-377-4175. Good luck with your search.
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Dick,
thanks for sharing as they say. We hope to be in Steve’s position in the not-to-distant future so reading about your experience is invaluable.
Steve – good luck with your detective work.
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I really appreciate you all’s input I agree that Olympia knows little about this coach. I thought since the owner of Olympia owns the Huge Volvo dealership next door the services on the coach would be done there. John the salesman says they (Volvo) don’t allow the mixture of the two businesses so the service preformed on the coach was done on the gravel parking lot. Olympia is building a new building next year but for now they have no facility.
I was told Olympia were putting on new tires, new engine batteries, house batteries, and a complete engine and generator service would be done. I did see the new batteries and the new tires. As far as the services I don’t believe they had been done yet. Also a new windsheild half and some side glasses were being changed because of a chip and some fog.
There is a Prevost facility in Nashville so I wonder if they would be willing to have an inspection done for me. I am a serious buyer and not wasting their time. I guess I am very skiddish about buying a coach because of creeping this site for a couple of years. I also don’t mind paying top dollar for a coach if things have been taken care of.
Also as far as dealers sending coaches out for Prevost to evaluate is that a normal practace. I am sure most dealers have a facility but in this case only a gravel parking lot..
Steve
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Good post, Dick
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steve, olympia should have no objections on working with you on getting the coach to prevost so you can have a dmi done. i found it best to be at prevost in person when the inspection was happening. that way the service tech can walk you through the inection and findings and provide you with clear direction on recommended service pr repairs.
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I am not saying Prevost won’t do a good job with the inspection, but you are buying both a house and a chassis.
So here is some free advice which is worth what you will pay for it. While Olympia is going to bring some maintenance items up to date that will not scratch the surface. Nothing against those folks. I am saying that because it is a major job to get everything zeroed out so you need to know whether you are on foot or horseback. A few examples are a change of coolant. Failure to maintain coolant properly can and has destroyed engines. When was the transmission fluid changed. It’s a pricey procedure, including filters but has to be done. How about the differential grease?
My point is there’s probably $1000 and you want someone with your interests to do that stuff so they can tell you stuff like the transmission fluid looks like it has been cooked, or the coolant looks bad.
You want the underside inspection which is going to look for the little stuff. How are the pads on the brakes? Are the brakes adusted and is the travel within limits? Are the brake chambers new or original? (A failed brake chamber diaphragm is going to shut you down,) Any signs of hub seal leaks? Chafing of hoses and wires? Shocks? The underside of the coach that nobody sees and few take care of as they should needs a good inspection.
And here is a biggie……..Does the air system show it has been maintained? To find sludge, water, or bad protection valves from moisture in the system means you now need to brinng some serious money to the table.
But let’s not forget the house. How about all the Cruiseairs? The OTR system? Are the inverters functioning? Tires, batteries, etc are big items and it is good they are starting new. You do want to make sure the inverters are set properly for charging or you can ruin the new batteries. Are their fans working and are they clean inside? Are there signs of water entry? If so to what extent?
How are the appliances working? Does the water pump cycle as expected or is it short cycling? Any leaks in the tanks for holding or fresh water? The HW tank?
Even if you do go to Prevost, at the very least have the house checked as well. And plan on spending money beyond the purchase price. I do not want to scare you away, but to make you aware that if you make the coach as new and reliable as possible now your enjoyment of it is going to be much greater.
Assuming you wanted to “renew” the coach and restore as much as possible to like new condition let’s say you need to spend $20,000. But let’s put that in perspective. For that money you can go 4 years before you change transmission fluids, 2 or 6 years before you deal with coolant, 10 years for air bags and valves, 5 years for brake chambers, 5 years for shocks, etc. You are buying not only a lot of peace of mind, when you are done you have several years where your likely maintenance is oil changes and lubes. And you have confidence in your coach.
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Even if you buy a coach that’s in good shape you still will have things to fix or replace, I had a 1997 Royale I replaced just about everything on the coach
new couch
new ECM for motor
All norgrens all fittings on bus comp fittings
Air door valve
All lights on dash switches
Parking brake valve and tag valve
Floor slide valve and air horn valve
Headlights and driving lights
New toe kick heaters three of them
New tivoli lighting in some places
New led lights under window sills front and back
New heater in water bay
New batteries house , gen , chassis
new starter
All fluids and all belts for motor and gen
Gen fan blowers had two of them
all air bags and rear engine air bellows
New rad caps for motor and gen
Rebuild Aqua hot
All new R12 valves and R14 valve
All check valves
All brake hoses and brake chambers
all drain cocks
all ride height valves
new rear seals
New tires all around
New muffler and tail pipe
New air bags for gen and ecu and voltage regulator
New air dryer
Repair AC Dash
new roof air covers
New fan in bathroom
Alignment 3 axle
New toilet
New kitchen chairs and lazy boy
New taps galley and bathroom
New tv bedroom
New sound system for tv in front
New tank monitors
sat radio in front
new driver and passenger chairs
These are some of the things I did in one year that I had coach it was in top shape then I sold it to start over with this liberty not as many things to do as the other one but still fun.
These may be some things you may have to do to get it to top shape there are something’s I did not mention this is just of the top of my head that I did
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Peter is anal. That is not an insult but is the best description of someone who will go to extraordinary lengths to be as reliable as possible. He is one of few who runs his coach a lot for his business and he has to be ready to go to a schedule. He not only needs reliability, he needs to understand his coach fully because he may be the one required to diagnose and repair the coach.
But for the casual motor home user there is a risk versus reward calculation each of us must make regarding how far we want to go in making our coaches reliable. And since we are all different what might be important to me might be something someone else can ignore.
Part of inspecting and buying a coach however is for the buyer to understand what he is dealing with. An inspection is the first step and then weighing the advice, information, and costs is what we all do, knowing that whether we go all out to make repairs, or we let things go until needed is an individual choice.
I opt to do as much preventive maintenance as possible because I do my own work, it is a hobby, and I feel I would rather throw away good parts (valves, air bags, brake chambers, tires, batteries, etc.) than to have a failure disrupt a trip. Others who are as correct in their thinking as I am may choose to wait until components give a sign they need to be replaced.
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Google this coach and you’ll find a you tube on it
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Thanks Jim & Chris, I found the You Tube on it.
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Again,
First,I want to thank every one of you guys for taking your time to give me some input. Second, I want to say, I have been treated very well at Olympia Coach, John has been very professional and answered every question he could answer. He has also got intouch with Prevost and has answered all my chassis questions about what had been done. I don’t want anyone here to think Olympia was a problem for us. I am new to this world and I am sure anything I deemed as a problem not getting the information I wanted was just myself not understanding the drill of acquiring it from Prevost and Liberty. The deal is not done yet but I think we are close. Thank you all again for your help. I know I will need much more as time goes on..
Steve
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Thanks for the really good overview of your buying experience. This is helpful to those of us contemplating a purchase in the future. I also suspect that it is advised not to fall in love with an interior (cosmetic) and be ready to walk away if the price is not what is not what you want to play knowing you probably need to put $30K to zero our a rig. Thanks again great information.
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Since there has been a lot of talk about spending serious money to zero out a coach I hope everyone understands there is no need to spend a penny if the coach is up to date and the documentation is available to prove it.
A coach without service records may not require a thing, or it may require everything. It is up to the buyer to determine the extent of work to be done to zero out the coach. On the other hand a coach that has had a progressive preventive maintenance program that is documented just requires a continuation of the program. There is substantial value in having a coach with documentation because there is no need to do some expensive work to zero out the coach.
If a coach has had recent coolant and transmission fluid changes that shelters the new owner from spending as much as $1000. If the records indicate a 15 year old coach has had air bags replaced in the recent past, Norgren valve replacements, brake chamber replacements and regular air system maintenance some very serious money will not have to be spent.
Bottom line is detailed service documentation adds value, and in some cases substantial value to a coach.
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Good summary Jon, $30k being at at the higher end(assuming the bus isn’t a complete pup) and $0ish at the low end. $0 is probably unlikely as most people(me included) will still likely spend money on updates instead.
My question though is in people’s experience, are bus asking prices for a particular year roughly the same regardless of proof of service/replacements made? Especially on a bus >5-6 years old.
Is it reasonable to expect on a bus say advertised by a dealer at $200-300k is priced to have enough ‘wiggle’ room to cover any reasonable replacements & repairs?
Also, where there is very little in the way of repairs needed other than a full service, is the dealer more likely to stick to their guns on price or is there usually a ‘mug buyer’ buffer built in? I know this is back to the old bus pricing scenario and drifting away from the original topic but any input greatly appreciated as usual.
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When Dave bought my coach all he needed to do was do a service at the right time ,10,000 miles oil change , fuel filters , grease,6000 miles air system drain and check the air system , he’s had it about 10 months I bet he has not spent any money expect to service motor about 5000 dollars, that’s what it would cost a year if coach was in top shape when u buy it
The coach was all zeroed out
Like Jon said you will have to spend some money at 5 years for some things and at 10 years that makes buying a coach most enjoyable !!!
Without records you just don’t know what’s being done if an owner can not tell you what’s being done or says he can’t remember I doubt it has being done , it’s easy to tell a buyer what’s being done when it’s all being done , I don’t leave anything to chance , I like to be sure!!!! I would not feel good selling a coach to somebody that was not in top shape because I use it every day, I guess if it was not in top shape this is how the add for the bus would read
Bus for sale will break down anytime no service has being done needs everything , won’t start sometimes , gen will start once in awhile , house batteries very old , everything leaks, tires have lots of tread they are 8 years old , but it’s still a
prevost, million mile chassis will go for ever!!!!! Will cost some money to get it in top shape!!!!!
If adds read like that it would make buying a coach very easy!!!!!!
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