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An Newbie Question on Reliability of Suspension
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I can’t believe that nobody has mentioned the front axle. The vintage you are considering was constructed with a choice of straight (solid) front axle or independent front suspension.
The independent has a tighter turning circle. Some say it gives a better ride but I’ve owned both and felt no difference. I sold my first coach (straight axle) at about 300,000 miles and had only changed shocks and air bags in front. Doubtful that you’ll make it to 200,000 on an IFS coach without steering linkage, ball joints, bushings, etc; probably a $5-8,000 bill. I wouldn’t make this a make or break factor in choosing a coach which may be suitable in most other ways, but it addresses your original question.
Depending on where you intend to operate your coach, the type of air conditioning installed could very well be a make or break factor. I’m not going to get into that here (there are already about a bezillion threads on it) but it’s something you may need to be aware of.
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With a coach 20 years of age, one definite consideration would be the bushings throughout the front end. They may not all be in terrible condition but some will need replacing. You cannot replace some of them individually generally because the tools for replacement are not available. We had the bushings but even Prevost would not install them here in Houston. They simply replace the entire “arm”. On the ’98 coach I most recently owned, we tried and ended up replacing both sides of the upper and lower control arms. These are expensive yet the results dramatic.
After reading these reviews, I would encourage you to deal with a very reputable dealer who concentrates on Prevost conversions and who support this forum. Their knowledge is significant and their reputations exist based on their trustworthiness. They see coaches they will resell and those they wholesale out.
Pres
1999 XLV X-6872, liberty #440 -
If you are looking for a very reliable coach with little demands for service Joel has you pointed in the right direction.
Two specific coaches come to mind. A solid axle Royale or Liberty Classic. Neither has any complexity to the house systems and with the solid front axle it will not take much to maintain either. They are simple coaches designed to provide a lot of trouble free service.
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If you read any of the threads on this site, then you will realize that the place you want to go is ETLC or Tradewinds.
Both can fix or inspect anything you need and both have coaches available for sale.
There is also the PC Maintenance Seminar next month at ETLC. The best experience for anyone who has or is considering a Prevost. We went before we bought ours, and we went again after we had purchased it. We will go again if our schedule allows.
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We bought a 1999 Liberty Elegant Lady (“24 volt coach”, more “complicated coach”) XLV (45’) with “over the road air” in Apr/May of 2104 with 72,000 miles. We couldn’t get maintenance records and both the tires and batteries were aged out. The coach was located 18 miles from East Tennessee Luxury Coach. Jeff Rowe and I worked out a plan to replace the components he felt were likely aged out and address things we knew didn’t work right. I spent $10,000 on Michelin tires and chassis/house (Lifetime) batteries and another $20,000 on the chassis/house stuff.
There are a number reasons I really like about owning a Prevost. (1) The chassis and drivetrain is built like a battleship, designed to last up to a million miles in revenue service. (2) The Liberty conversion (and for the most part most of the conversions) are built with the same battleship quality design and execution. (3) Prevost has chassis service centers across the country and is opening more so chassis service is there if I need it. (4) Prevost coaches are one of the most widely utilized seated coach chassises in the country. Many Prevost seated coach operators big enough to have their own maintenance staff are more than happy to take in outside motorhome work, giving you hundreds of the chassis service options across the country.
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Jon’s admonition concerning an un-compromised air system (moisture) is the most important. While tires, batteries, brake and suspension components are not chump change…they are all normal maintainance items on any motor home. Even if you have to replace the upper a-arms on an independent fr susp coach, they are not crazy expensive. But, you will go crazy chasing chasing air leaks and components with system damaged by moisture. Geo.
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Rosty, I don’t know if you have zeroed in on a coach yet or if you are gathering information, but based on the vintage you have mentioned you can approach a purchase in one of two ways.
A search of all the Prevost coach sale sites, plus ebay will give you a sense of the asking prices for your target vintage. I do not think it would be unreasonable to accept those values as being for a coach with all routine maintenance items being halfway through their life. That means normal routine age or mileage related service items are halfway through their life cycle. Tires might be 3 years old, same with batteries, coolant and transmission fluid changes have halfway to go before they have to be changed again, etc.
But except for items with date codes such as tires and batteries you require validation of how much life is left in those service items. Absent log books or receipts you have no choice but to assume those services have not been done so you have to adjust what you want to pay for a coach to reflect you have to do those services.
With a pneumatic system and no records it becomes a gray area because you can’t just look inside the valves or other devices to determine if they need service or if they have been well maintained As Dick pointed out he spent some serious money to get his coach up to date. You can mitigate that by doing the work yourself, but to do the type of work required you need supports, a place to work, tools, patience, and a willingness to do the work methodically and carefully.
So option one is to pick your coach and adjust your purchase price based on date codes and a very detailed inspection of the logs.
The second option is to not look at any coach that does not have its history recorded. Our coaches have so many items that need service, and so many different ways of scheduling such as by miles, hours, calendar time, etc, that anyone with out detailed logs that can be matched to the service requirements of the chassis, engine, suspension, generator, differential, batteries, fluids, filters, etc. is not tracking the needed work. It is just impossible to keep track without some type of master schedule. When you find that coach, buy it. That will shelter you from immediately having to learn by experience what can go wrong and how to fix it before you have even had an opportunity to enjoy your new purchase
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“A Prevost I can afford will be close to 20 years old. I don’t worry about other parts because I am quite handy, mechanically adept and have tools, so I feel I could deal with most electrical, plumbing, etc issues myself. I have never dealt with pneumatics before, though. Just want to avoid surprises on the road until I get a handle on that.”
You may be handy, but as the coaches get older and older the parts begin to cease to exist. I have a valve that’s no good, Prevost has no replacement part and no suggestion as to how to get my heat working again. I don’t think you are going to be able to build the right valve or modify one to work with the existing Prevost wiring so there could well be times you are simply going to be SOL and have to figure out a work-around that’s at least somewhat acceptable.
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Bill has a valid point, but I don’t consider the lack of direct drop in replacement parts as a big issue. Except for walls, furniture and decorative stuff the people that build our chassis or convert the coach buy the components.
If someone supplies a device and that exact device is no longer produced it just means an alternative has to be found. The alternative may require some reworking or changes to how it is mounted or located, but so far in all of the tens of thousands of posts everyone has been able to replace devices and repair coaches.
The serious problems are or will be related to items for which there are single sources and proprietary features. An engine control module that is no longer supported, or chassis window parts. But that is why older coaches have lower purchase prices. They will have more needed repairs and the repairs are not necessarily going to be easy or cheap.
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I have a bad heater valve that’s not working and Prevost says the part is no longer available and there is no replacement part. So, I am pretty much SOL when doing any amount of Winter driving unless I run the generator and point 2 electric heaters toward the drivers area. The windshield will still freeze due to no heat but at least we don’t freeze to death before we arrive at our destination.
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FullTimeBill, what is the Prevost part#?
I’m sure there are inexpensive valves available that will do the job.
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Not my thread and I am new to the forum but I just wanted to chime in and say that this thread has some great advice… many thanks to you all.
I am seriously considering a preowned, vintage Liberty or Royale coach myself.
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Jump in – the water is fine. I was in a similar position 6 years ago. Never owned an RV before but lots of boat and plane experience and not afraid to tackle electrical or mechanical issues. Wanted to buy good quality older coach not knowing whether we’d enjoy it.
I bought a 99 Marathon with 152k miles. Good shape but not immaculate. No service records. The coach has never let me down in 6 years.
First year, I replaced the shocks ($800). Second year, Prevost Mira Loma replaced a king valve on the OTR A/C($2000). Third year I replaced the air bags and front suspension A arms ($5000) Prevost Richmond BC. Next year I plan on brake chambers. In addition, yearly fluid changes, greasing and two Transynd transmission fluid changes ($700). A muffler replacement ($600). Plus I replaced the front windshields myself ($320) and topped off the OTR A/C charge ($150).
Add a set of tires and that’s it. Not bad for an almost 20 year old coach. Our ’99 works so well that I’m having a hard time rationalizing upgrading to a newer Prevost.
Gerald
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Fulltime Bill: Please put the year, model, and converter of your coach in your signature so we can see what you have. Thanks!
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Did a bit of research…..Is this working? Yep, got the signature in place. Thanks for any assistance.
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