[Archived]

Fred,

I don’t believe there is a kit on the market that will fit your application perfectly. Normally, a need must be accurately defined, then a system designed to fill that need. John Palmer of Palmer Energy Systems ( http://www.palmerenergysystems.com/) is an expert at putting together a solar system that will do what you want and teaching you how to use it. He will sell you the components and install it for you or provide as much assistance as necessary should you choose to install it yourself. Staying at his Lake City, Florida paradise is a fun adventure in itself. Give him a call at 941-928-4573 or email him at john@palmerenergysystems.com.

[Robert]

Hi Ron, I will give John a call and see what he thinks. I’ve seen some panels and controlers on line, including some where you can “add” panels as needed, but I just want to make sure that whatever the system I get, that it matches up with my bats and system.

Thanks for the info I appreciate it!

[Archived]

The previous owner of our H3-40 had six solar panels installed on the roof. I have not had the time yet to checked to see if they work or how they are hooked up. They would dry camp all winter in the Keys so the reason for the panels. Hopefully I will get it checked out soon!

[Fred]

That sounds like a lot of panels, how many house bats do you have? I have three. The guy I talked to at Outsidesupply.com sugested that I get two pannels, one for the house and a separate one for a “trickle” charger for the gen battery. It would be nice, while dry camping, not to have to run the gen all the time.

[Archived]

Unless there is a strong reason for not running a generator I seriously doubt the investment in solar panels will yield enough benefits to justify all that is required to install them and unless you are willing to sacrifice the luxury of the conversion.

Our coaches are energy consumers. That is not a criticism, but an acknowledgement that when they were converted energy conservation was not the prime motivation for the system designs. We have large house size refrigerators, energy consuming lighting, and a lot of “key off” loads, ranging from clocks, alarms, inverters, TVs, water pump, etc. But to live comfortably, except on rare days, we are going to run our ACs or our heat sources. Those heating and cooling systems are going to dictate shore power, or the use of a generator.

So solar panels may work well for maintaining our batteries as long as the coach is put to sleep and all switches are off, but to expect solar panels to help us avoid running a generator while we live in a coach might be a stretch unless willing to live as though the coach is nothing more than a metal pup tent. Most of us have worked too hard to be able to afford a coach that lets us live in luxury when away from home, and our generators are likely not going to be worn out in service by motor home conversions.

[AL]

Hi Jon, I agree with you in general but having an alternative energy
source may be a good choice for some. I understand the point you are making
with regard to the fact that our buses are energy hogs but more and more, as
these solar panels are becoming less expensive and more efficient, they may
prove to be a viable (at least supplemental) option for our buses. I’m still not convinced though
that solar will work for me yet, but I’m looking into what’s available out there, just to
get an idea. I don’t know if I will be able to run all the things I’d like to (at
one time) off a panel certainly, but hopefully, I could least keep all the
batteries “topped off”, be able to monitor their charge and condition and run a few small things, that
would be a good start for my application when dry camping.

[Ron]

Fred, since we both have Liberty coaches I can relate to what is going on in yours. If you look at the amp load on both legs of your electrical panel you will see around 3 to 7 total amps with all the obvious loads turned off. By obvious loads I am talking about HW heater, aux air compressor, TV or entertainment center, and all lights. What is being displayed are the phantom loads we don’t think about, but are there in the background.

That dictates if all you do is have your refrigerator on you need to make sure your solar system has at least a 30 amp to 70 amp capacity at 12 volts. That’s a lot of watts and all that is doing if that is your solar system capability is offsetting the loads and is doing nothing to charge the batteries. My point is while solar power has a distinct advantage if you generate enough power to live in a coach, the odds are that you will have to live very conservatively to see many benefits. If the coach is stored outside without a power connection there is no questions solar panels can maintain batteries as long as the coach has all batteries turned off, but then you have the issue of the coach being damaged from outside storage.

In your coach with three 8D batteries solar panels will not do anything to stop the generator from autostarting if you start in the evening with fully charged batteries and use only modest uses of battery power from sundown to sun up. If you read a little, watch some TV, and leave the refrigerator running, your batteries need to be charged by morning so for me the largest selling point of a roof full of solar panels would be to keep the batteries charged after I have gone to bed, but I don’t think the moon has the ability to do that.

[Rick & Denise]

Fred, Jon’s comments are right on. Imagine plugging your house into a little Honda 1000 watt generator during the daylight hours only and attempting to live on what it gives you. On the other hand, my fourteen panels let me live quite comfortably, but there’s a big difference between your coach and mine. I’ve got to hit the road right now to go pick up my new engine air compressor (a two hour drive), but I’ll try to add some more perspective to this thread this evening.

Tom, I bought the panels for your coach and installed them with the help of my good friend, Art Broadsky, its owner at the time. I’m sure I have some answers to your questions.

[John]

Thanks Ron and Jon, I appreciate your insights into this. I agree with Jon’s outside storage point, if you have outside storage with all draw(s) turned off, solar would be a good alternative to charge with. But
what if I got this panel:

http://www.outsidesupply.com/145-watt-rv-solar-battery-charging-kit.aspx

it’s listed at 145 watts, could I cover my basic phantom
loads and still be able to run the refig and tv? How much wattage would one
need to cover most of all that we need (like) to run on a regular basis? How does it effect my two Freedom 2500 inverters? Is there a different inverter that needs to be uitilized when running on solar? Is it even possible
to do what I want to do with todays solar technology? So many questions and so little time!

[Fred]

Fred, like many folks looking at solar power, you’re grossly overestimating its capabilities. It takes more panels than you have roof space to make a significant impact on the power requirements of your all-electric coach. A 145 watt panel will not run your fridge or TV and it will probably not keep up with your phantom loads. You must multiply the wattage and time of each appliance then add to come up with your personal total need. I’d forget the solar kit and buy a good charger along with a timer to charge batteries for an hour per day while the coach is in long-term storage. No power at your storage site? Minimize your phantom loads or disconnect batteries between periodic battery charging drives. Solar panels have no impact on inverters. They simply charge batteries. No, it is not possible for today’s solar technology to do all you’d like it to do for the coach you have because it appears you’re interested in more than just storage.

Your generator is rated at 21 or 24 THOUSAND watts because the engineers feel you need that much to enjoy your coach’s comforts. ONE thousand watts of solar is a large array for an RV. That array is only generating its full capacity for a few hours when the sun is overhead on a cloudless day. So realistically, you’re looking at trying to operate the systems in your coach on a small fraction (1/48th?) of the wattage they are designed to use. Compare a big solar array to a Honda 1000 generator that is only run a few hours per day. If your goal is to avoid listening to your big generator, you can see that it would make more sense to run your new Honda 1000 to power your TV and a small light bulb in your stainless steel pup tent than to depend upon a solar system that is less reliable and is much more expensive.

If I had your coach, I’d take a different approach to minimizing the generator noise and air pollution at that beautiful lakeside dry camping spot. I’d look at the highest power consumption appliances first. Air conditioning – have those wheels take you to a summertime destination that is 7500 to 8500 feet elevation where you’ll be cool and comfortable. Most air conditioners will drain batteries quickly. Cooking – use a portable induction cook-top, propane burner or charcoal grill instead of that old power-hungry electric cook-top. Television – trade that old plasma or LCD TV for a newer LED TV. They use 40% less power and give off far less heat. Water heater – don’t be heating water when you don’t need it. Turn it on ten minutes before your shower, then turn it off. It will be warm enough for most of your needs throughout the day. Electric air compressor – minimize its running time by fixing your air leaks. Refrigerator – fill all empty space with beer. Cold liquid reduces recovery time when the door is opened. Lights are a small draw, but LEDs and CFCs help. Phantom loads – your Bose music system and televisions use nearly as much power when they’re turned off as when they’re on. Use an amp meter to find out exactly what all the loads are so you can manage them better. Run your generator when you can combine loads to load it up heavily. Make the most of every minute it is running.

Roughing it smoothly is possible, but it takes a combination of things to make it happen, not just 14 solar panels and 8 8D AGM batteries. I’ve gone for years at a time without hookups. No, I’m not reading books by candle light. My batteries are normally charged before noon. I’m using my fascination with technology to maximize efficiency and enhance my comfort. For instance, I have added two 24 volt refrigeration systems to my 115 volt 24 cubic foot refrigerator/freezer. Along with the extra four inches of insulation all around, the energy efficient compressors will significantly reduce the load on my 24 volt solar array, freeing up power for other uses. The solar water heating system on my roof will be tied into my AquaHot to reduce the diesel fuel required to provide hydronic floor heat and hot water for showers and washing dishes. I intend to use my home automation system to extend and retract my full length Girard awnings as necessary to control the coach temperature. The six inches of insulation I’ve added to the ceiling is very effective in keeping the heat or cold where I want it. It’s the total of all these things that allows me to live in quiet comfort next to that pristine lake or trout stream for weeks or months at a time without hookups.

‘Sorry bout rambling on. I hope you find something of value in what I’ve tossed out.

[Archived]

Hi Ron, copy the beer in the frig concept!! and I appreciate you
taking the time to explain your system.

So on one hand it appears that it is possible to go solar or
at least run some appliances, if you are aware of and take care to understand
the demands of the wattage involved. I
have no intention of running everything at once on solar and I do use my
generator daily when traveling and sometimes all day long (and night) depending
on the demand. But dang, I really I was hoping it would be more “practical” to have
a panel or two on the roof to help cut down the time of running the gen and
charge the batteries but it seems we are not really there yet. If you have any
resources or books that might be a good place for me to start reading up on
this I’d appreciate that too. Thank you.

[Archived]

Has anyone ever explored the idea of Solar & Wind power ??? I have often wondered about a small turbine on roof similar to what is seen on homes/buildings that circulates air. Possibly be used to operate a “Super” generator for power. It would have to be of low footprint, but I think they are about the size of a Kingdome if not smaller. Even the

F4 Phantom used a Ram Air Turbine for emergency elect & hydaulic power in case of complete loss of power. Granted it was minimal power to get one back on the ground, but…

[Archived]

Ron,

That is great you have knowledge of my coach!! It is a pretty good setup I just wish I knew how it all tied together and worked. For others reading this post, along with the 6 solar panels my coach has (6) 8D AGM Lifeline batteries, (2) 4024 inverters, with auto generator start.

Ron,

Contact me at tomhamrick@yahoo.com and I can pick your brain.

[Dan]

Fred,

I don’t want to rain on your parade, but just to equal the phantom loads, not counting anything else including the refrigerator on your coach, you need about 400 to 700 watts. Anything less than that and you are still drawing your batteries down and eventually will be starting the generator. Until you get into the hidden stuff on your coach you don’t realize all the subtle unknown current draws built into our coaches. If you leave the switch on for the entertainment center or the TVs add to the wattage needs. If you want the refrigerator to keep working add even more.

While is seems silly to run the generator using expensive diesel fuel when the sun provides power if we can grabs some of it, the reality is Ron likely has gone to great lengths to be energy efficient, something our store bought conversions are not, at least to the extent Ron has. Even if you go to great pains to minimize the electrical loads such as killing power to the 12 volt radios, all the clocks, the temperature gauge, the alarm system, the smoke or CO detector, the tank level monitors, etc. etc. you still have a refrigerator that should be propane powered instead of electric for greater efficiency. You still have a water pump. you still have a satellite system that needs to be off, a doorbell, and of course the inverters, all of which are likely robbing you of battery power in one form or another.

Look at it another way. You have a generator that is good for 30,000 hours or more before it starts to wear out. Why not plan on running it until it does wear out and then consider solar as a susbstitute. By then solar energy may actually be more advanced than today and maybe you can get some real power from panels on the roof.

[Charles]

Well said Jon