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A Coolant Question
I have a coolant question made possible, in part, by a poor decision on my part.
We were traveling west from London, Kentucky today (Saturday) when I watched my low coolant alert come on. The engine temp was showing fine and I was able to pull to the shoulder quickly. By the time I was stopped, the low coolant alert was off and the temp was about 200. I put my wife in the driver’s seat, left the engine running and I ran outside to check the engine.
All looked good at the engine and I noticed the radiator fan seemed to be idling, confirming the engine temp was good. I went back to the passenger side and as I approached the front, I noticed coolant running out several places under the bus. The shoulder of the highway was leaning heavy toward the grass and the coolant running out told me the leak/gusher was probably in the lines running to the Aqua Hot.
My wife shut down the bus. When she shut down, the engine temp was still good and the low coolant alert was back on. I went to the rear driver’s side and closed the valves going to and from the Aqua Hot.
That brings me to my previous bad decision. When we removed the Aqua Hot last year, we looped the coolant lines. I decided to leave the valves open allowing the engine coolant to circulate through them. My thinking was that if I replaced the Aqua Hot in the future, the coolant in the lines would be fresh and not gummed up. I know now I should have shut those valves off.
I know the break in the line is in the second bay, where the Aqua Hot was, but the side of the road was too busy to investigate further. When I finally arrived in Central City, Kentucky this evening, parked, set up our equipment and had time to look, it was dark.
On the side of the road I had no idea how much coolant was lost, but I suspected several gallons. I had less than one gallon of new coolant on board. I poured it in the expansion tank along with two gallons of warm water. Then I had my wife crank the bus, watch the gauges and let me know when the low coolant alert went off.
The bus temp stayed slightly above 195 while I added water. I added 7 1/2 gallons before the low coolant alert went off. I added another 1 1/2 gallons for a total of 9. I drove 100 miles before stopping and let it idle while I ate in the bus. While stopped, the low coolant alert flashed twice. I really expected to get that while driving, since I suspected I might have some air pockets. I added another gallon and finished the trip.
Here is the question. What now? I know I need to get the water/coolant ratio back to 50/50 and and the right amount of phosphates(?) too. How much can I drive before that must be done.
I am in Central City, Kentucky this week. I go to West Plains, Missouri in one week and then south Alabama the next. If it is OK to run 700-800 miles in the current condition, I could detour to Prevost Nashville on the way from Missouri to Alabama in two weeks and have the radiator flushed and filled at Prevost. I could finagle a full day then.
IF it is absolutely necessary that I get it done sooner rather than later, I could possibly go there one morning this week IF they could get it done quick. We are working here every night.
I am 107 miles from Prevost Nashville this week and 298 miles from Jeff’s in Vonore.
I am open to information and ideas.
Davy
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20 Replies
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I would be concerned running the engine under a load really low on SCA’s. Low on SCA’s means little or no “protection against cavitation damage to both cylinder liners and water pump”.
Maybe, as a stop gap, until the coolant can be properly serviced, purchase some concentrated Supplemental Cooling Additive (SCA) appropriate and compatible with your existing coolant and some coolant test strips and add SCA additive until the SCA’s are up to the proper level.
Freeze protection would be lacking but at least the engine would be protected from cavitation damage.
Just a thought.
There may be a better plan…but we’ll have to wait for others to chime in.
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I think Tim offered some very good advice, and to be certain you are protected I would urge ASAP to drain the system and add the correct coolant in the proper ratio with water.
Before doing that I would go over the entire coach cooling system to replace any hoses or clamps that might be suspect to prevent this from happening again.
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Thanks, Tim. SCA’s That is the term I was looking for.
I know it needs to be done quickly, but honest question, how quickly?
This week before I crank it again?
After driving 107 miles to Prevost Nashville?
After 800 miles when I can go by Nashville with a “little” more ease?
Is it possible to add enough SCA’s to the mixture I have now to permit me to drive to one of the option above?
Good advice on the leak. The leak is in the hose to the Aqua Hot and that valve is shut.
Thank you, guys.
Davy
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Just my opinion, like I said above, I wouldn’t operate the engine under a load until the SCA’s are up to the proper level. That means to me no driving, and no turbo boost. Idle and fast idle are O.K.
If you decide to drive it you will be causing some cavitation damage as stated above. Will you have an immediate engine failure? Probably not, but you are, in fact, causing some amount of cavitation damage every time you run the engine under a load without the protection of the SCA’s.
Is it possible to add enough SCA’s to the mixture I have now to permit me to drive to one of the option above?
Yes. Just to be clear, you won’t be buying coolant in gallon jugs, you’ll buy concentrated Supplemental Cooling Additive (SCA). The coolant test strips will give you an indication when you have the SCA concentration up to the proper level. They will likely show low for glycol (freeze) protection but it’s acceptable to operate the engine under a load (as in drive it) until you can get the coolant serviced properly.
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Davy,
When your engine fires on the combustion stroke it sets up intense shock waves that literally will blow minute particles from the outside of your cylinder liner. The chemistry of the coolant protects the engine from that damage. The additives in well maintained coolant work their magic providing the engine with long life.
If you run an engine without that protection the damage is not immediate, but takes place over time with each combustion event in the engine. The end result is the cylinder liners end up with porosity and at that point the engine becomes a candidate for rebuilding. Will it happen in a few miles, or a few hundred or even a few thousand? Who knows? We just know it will happen.
A while back on another forum a Series 60 Prevost owner had an engine fail at 42,000 miles because the coolant had not ever been changed or maintained.
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Thank you both for the information. I was aware that damage could result, that is why I asked the question. I was not clear on how quickly it could happen. That helps me know what to do? Thank you again.
Davy
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I pulled everything out of the second bay today and found the ruptured hose. The side blew out of the hose that used to run to the Aqua Hot like I supposed. It was pumping a lot of coolant in a hurry I would say.
Davy
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It looks impossible for me to get to Nashville this week. I understand the importance of getting the SCA ratio correct and I will not proceed without doing so. I would like to be able to do it myself And get the coolant/water mix closer to 50/50 so I can keep moving. If that is possible, then I can get it flushed and filled a little later.
Help me out with the math and feasibility of my plan, please.
My memory is fuzzy, but I am thinking the coolant capacity is 17 gallons. I lost 10 gallons or so and replaced it with 10 gallons of water. That means I have 7 gallons of 50/50 mixture now mixed with 10 gallons of water. That is 3.5 gallons of coolant and 13.5 gallons of water or about 20/80.
IF I drained 5 gallons of this mix that would leave 12 gallons at 20/80 which by my calculations is about 2.5 gallons of coolant and 9.5 gallons of water. (I know I can drain about 5 gallons by removing the hose from one of the valves just forward of the radiator.)
If I added 5 full strength gallons of the Correct coolant, that would bring the mix to 7.5 gallons of coolant and 9.5 gallons of water, a whole lot closer to 50/50 than I am now.
After idling I could then check the SCA level and add the proper amount of concentrate and be on my way.
I do value your input.
Davy
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Get it as close to the ratio as you can Davy and add your SCA to check with strips. Get it serviced as soon as you can, you’ll be fine.
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Your plan seems sound to me.
You might need to save a little room for the SCA concentrate, just in case.
Maybe…drain 5 gallons, add 4.5 gallons of full strength coolant, warm up and test. If you need the SCA level brought up there will still be a little room (½ gallon) of head space for the SCA concentrate. Once the SCA’s test good, mix the full strength coolant 50/50 with water and use that to top it off.
Maybe…it’s just another way to do what you were planning anyway.
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When coolant was changed on my previous Cummins, they used a water filter that had a charge of SCA all ready in it.
does DD have a coolant filter? they also come in “Bear” ( no SCA)
Jim Brown
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Thank you all. I will find test strips tomorrow and proceed. I will save a little room for the SCA.
Jim, I have the SCA content checked at every oil change. When it is low, they have sometimes changed the filter and sometimes added it from a small container. I do not know the brand of the filter.
Davy
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I used the “FINAL Charge” Nitrite-Free EXTENDED LIFE 50/50 Prediluted coolant / antifreeze purchased at O’Reiley’s Auto Parts. It is an ethylene glycol-based coolant in keeping with the specs I understand are recommended.
I assume that going forward after you flush the system you will add the prediluted coolant. In theory it eliminates the need for SCAs and chemically charged filters.
Just my thoughts.
Pres
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Having a difficult time finding the 3-way test strips. I am in Central City, Kentucky this week. All the parts places I have visited or called here and in Madisonville have no 3-way strips or are surprised when I ask to check the date and find they expired many years ago. The first bottle I looked at was June 04.
The Clarke Power in Henderson, KY said they sold out of strips and additive last week.
I ordered a set of 4 on Amazon and they will be here Thursday, cutting it close. I am a little over an hour from Evansville and the Speedco at Franklin. Speedco said they have the bottles of additive and will give me a couple of strips when buying the bottles.
I may run down first thing in the morning.
I was able to drain 4 gallons of coolant today. I was surprised how heavy on coolant it looked.
Davy
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Can you go to a truck lubrication place ?
They can look at a coolant sample from your coach and analyze it quickly.
Pres
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