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Calling all Trace SW 4024 Inverter Experts
Don’t know if I have a problem with one of my inverters or if I just don’t understand their operation. I hope someone here can give me some guidence.
I have (2) Trace SW 4024 inverters, one for each leg of of the electrical system. Last week we kept tripping the 50 amp pedestal breaker which led me to investigate if it was us or the breaker. Long story short, it was us but I am not sure why.
I had the meter functions active on each inverter to compare the loads on each leg and there was a huge difference in the “Input AMPS AC” readings.
With one A/C unit running and the battery chargers putting 15 Amps into the batteries, inverter 1 would show “Inverter/Charger AMPS 15”, “Input Amps 3” and “Load AMPS -9”.
The exact same situation for inverter 2 one A/C unit running and 15 Amps charge into the batteries the meters were “Inverter/Charger AMPS 15”, “Input AMPS 27″, Load AMPS 12”.
My understaning of these reading is “Input AMPS” is the Amps used for all loads so if the charger is using 15 and the A/C is using 12, it should read 27 amps. The readings I get on inverter 1 tell me 15 amps were going into the charger but only 3 amps were coming from the pedestal for the A/C unit and the 9 amps being a negative number suggests the batteries were supplying the difference.
Now that I am home, both inverters seem to be working correctly. Each shows the 15, 27, 12 as inverter 2 did while on the road.
If the readings were correct, that indicates to me I may have a problem with inverter 1 not passing full amps through the inverter into the wiring system. If this is right, that may account for tripping the breaker as there would be a significant imbalance between the two legs.
On the other hand, the inverter could be working fine and the meters are not reading correctly, especially when everything is hot.
Just remembered, the meters were reading the same on both the generator and shore power so it was not the pedestal.
Any thoughts on next steps to figure this out?
Thanks,
Paul
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46 Replies
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“Load AMPS -9” ?
Are you stating that your load was (-) (neg) 9?
If so, that is not possible. Load is always a positive number.
Reset the inverter.
Do you have the manual? If not, I’ll email it to you.
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Sorry about that, I am a little dyslexic and can’t read my own writing. Inverter 1 was “Inverter/charger AMPS -15, “Input AMPS 3”, “Load AMPS 9”
I do have a copy of the manual and it is probably more I don’t fully understand the meter readings vs having a problem. Acording to the manual, the -15 amp reading means that the inverter is powering the AC loads, the 3 amp reading indicates current from the pedestal or genset and the 9 amp load is the air conditioning.
With inverter 2, the meters make a lot more sense to me with 15 amps going to the charger, the load being 12 amps, the Input AC Amps should be 27 and it was.
If I understand all these numbers, it seems like inverter 1 was not passing full current into the coach and the batteries were supplying the majority of the power through the inverter section to run the A/C unit. If so, I assume the inverter is going bad.
As I said earlier, now that I am at home, inverter 1 meters act as I think they should, “load”, + “inverter/charger” equals input.
In re-writing the above, I think my question about inverter 1 boils down to is my logic and understanding correct? A second question might be has anyone experienced these readings?
Thanks,
Paul
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IMHO, you experienced a bad power pedestal at the CG (one sour leg). You should make a habit of scoping the pedestal with a multi-meter before hook up. If it doesn’t look right, let the proprietor know and have them check it out.
Hope your issues are resolved, Good traveling. Happy Independence Day
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Fire up the generator. If the problem persists it could be downstream from the transfer switch. If the problem goes away it could have been a shore power pedestal issue, the cord or the transfer switch relay.
Keep in mind I have no clue about the Vantare electrical system, but I start with the basics.
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I am 99% sure the inverter is needing some money.
I have narrowed the problem to the unit not passing full amperage when it is in bulk charging mode. When the charger is in float mode, I get full amperage through the unit.
The symptoms are; when the unit first synchs up with shore or genset power, I do get full amperage to the house loads. After a few minutes, the input amperage starts to drop 1 or 2 amps at a time over a 2-3 minute period and settles around 3-4 amps. As the input amperage drops below the house loads, it draws from the batteries which is why I was seeing the (-) amperage. Again, this only happens when the charger is in bulk charge mode.
To confirm my findings, I waited until the charger was in float mode and then turned on most of the house loads on that leg. I had 38 amps of house load passing through the unit and the input amperage was within 1 or 2 amps of the load and stayed that way for 20 minutes. I then shut off the shore power, let the inverter power the loads for 5 minutes, then turned on the shore power. Same situation as before, input amperage from shore power matched loads and charger amperage then slowly dropped off to 3-4 amps.
The sympoms and situation is very repeatable.
I have been through all the connections AC and DC, reset the inverter a couple of times and batteries are new. Vantare does not use an automatic transfer switch, it is a rotary switch and I have confirmed no loss of power through it.
It looks like I am in need of a repair facility unless some has some other ideas. Does anyone still service the SW 4024? I am in the Tampa, FL area.
Paul
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Paul,
Being in the Tampa area you have assistance at your fingertips. Get hold of Ben Cummings at Parliament / Coach Worx.
Nobody better.
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Ditto to Jon, call Ben, He designed the Vantare systems.
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Paul,
Yes, they
appear still available on Amazon and eBay and I’m sure elsewhere:I assume
Xantrex service centers still repair these.
Check the Xantrex web site for the service center closest to you if you’re
going to do the R&R, there are three in Florida. If you need someone do to it, I too recommend
CoachWorx, now part of Parliament in Clearwater. I would call Ben anyway and let him verify
you have a real problem or just a simple, you can do, kind of fix.I’m not an
expert on your inverter/charger model and know it to be one of the more complex
units. I just did a quick glance of the
manual and would suggest that you check to make sure it’s not setup to sell
power back to the grid. This is under
the configure option of SET GRID USAGE.
I assume that the input grid power is set at 50A (FYI, Xantrex
recommends 60A). If it’s too low the
inverter will supplement what the coach loads demand above this set point with
inverted power, as yours appears to be doing. -
For future reference.
Authorized Xantrex Service Centers
Authorized Xantrex Service Centers in Florida.
- FLORIDA
Jaytron Marine Electronics
2635 Manatee Ave, East
Bradenton, FL 34208
Ph. 941-748-1941
- FLORIDA
Lamplighter Marine
117 Moorings Drive
Lantana, FL 33462
Ph. 561-588-9176
- FLORIDA
Southeast Power Systems
4220 N. Orange Blossom Trail
Orlando, FL 32804
Ph. 407-293-7971
- FLORIDA
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Paul, after the charge side of our inverters was fried, Jaytron in Bradenton repaired them for 1000 ea. We now carry them as spares.
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Thanks everyone for all the info. I will try and talk with Ben next week. I have to go right by their facility on Thursday so it may be worth taking the coach. Always looking for an excuse to go for a ride.
I know Jaytron from my boating days but never gave a thought about them for inverter repair. Thanks for that information.
My inverters have the MC2 software in which the “sell” option is deleted
I really appreciate the input. It goes without saying, our coaches are complex machines but with the help of all you kind folks, I will figure these systems out.
I will report back once we figure out the situation.
Paul
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Paul… there is a reset button on the inverter itself …power everything down on that leg and reset the inverter.. It may fix your problem…I don’t mean the reset in the electrical panel inside…but the reset button on the unit tself. That often solves a lot of problems.. they have a tendancy to get “confused” sometimes… see if that rights the problem… the SW 4024s are pretty “hearty”.
Good Luck,
Diane
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Diane:
That’s what I told him. I assume he already did that.
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I had the great fortune to get some help with my inverter situation and as luck would have, I don’t really have a problem with the inverters themselves.
The root cause is I have two separate inverters wired to one large battery bank.
Xantrex (Trace) does not support this configuration unless the two inverters are interconected in either series or parallel operation.
The behavior I was seeing is Inverter 1 was bulk charging the battery bank and inverter 2 was seeing the charge voltage from inverter 1 as an overcharged battery bank, thus reducing it’s charge to zero and then “inverting” to supply the loads.
The tempory solution is to reduce the charge output of one inverter while a more permanent solution would be to link the two units via a stacking interface cable.
For testing, I set one charger at 15 amps and the other at 1 amp. With these settings, the inverters and chargers performed as they should. I will up the amperage on the “low” unit to 5 amps and see if both inverters remain stable.
Those of you with Vantare conversions may want to verify the operation of your inverters if you have a single battery bank as I do. In my case, I only found this “problem” because we were tripping pedestal breakers once and a while.
If it is of interest, the reason we were tripping breakers is inverter #1 was always the unit that charged the battery. That same inverter also runs 2 A/C units, hot water heater and fridge. So that is 15 amps for the charger, 13 amps for each A/C unit, 14 amps for the water heater and 2 for the fridge for a total of 57 amps. Not too many 50 amp breakers will hold 57 amps.
Going forward, I now have the charging amps on inverter #1 turned down to 5 amps which will force inverter #2 to charge the battery. So now, the max amperage on the leg that feeds inverter #1 will be 47 amps and 43 amps will be used by Inverter #2 assuming I have the other 2 A/C units on and 15 amps of charge going into the battery.
Again, thanks for all your input and ideas.
Paul
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I have been following this thread with interest. Sometimes I wake up and find the inverter cooling fans running in the front bay while on shore power [any new bus noise will wake me]. The inverters should have been idle and in pass-through mode. Typically the only loads would be the refrigerator, the block heater and maybe a toe kick heater or water heater.
The panel shows both inverters working hard: one inverter putting ~50A DC into the 24V battery bank, the other inverter pulling out ~50A and inverting even though the loads chould have been easily run off the shore power. I found it strange because the next day it would work just fine. I think what is happening is similar to your situation.
If I turn on the block heater after the bulk charging is complete, things work as expected. Battery chargers go into float mode and loads are run off shore power. If I turn on the block heater while bulk charging is going on, I’ll get one inverter charging, the other inverter inverting until I turn off the constant AC loads.
I’ll have to give limiting the charge current a try.
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