-
UGLY FIX Question
I have been reading the posts about the UGLY FIX mod and EGR. My engine is a 2003 DD Series 60 14L with DDEC IV. ( I do not know if this software is programmed to shut down the EGR at altitude). I stopped by American Fleet to meet and greet and understand their services. UGLY FIX was mentioned and their response was don’t do that because, 1. It is illegal and, 2. The engine was designed for EGR. Meaning that bypassing it could cause other problems. I suppose that if I really thought about it I would have realized it was illegal. But, with so many regulations, some times it is easy to view them as guidelines or suggestions. I ordered an UGLY FIX, and clearly stated on their information sheet it said ” not street legal ” and basically ” use at your own risk “. So, I can’t decide whether or not to install it or return it. I’m not putting a 100,000 miles on the coach a year so it will not save much on fuel. Probably never have enough miles on it to have a problem with # 6 cylinder. So, what do you guys using one think?
-
10 Replies
-
I am sure the engine was designed around the EGR because unless the engine met the emission standards it would not matter how efficient or powerful it is because it would not meet the EPA standards it could not be sold.
What the EGR system does and how it does it is complex, but the bottom line is when the EGR cycles on some exhaust is pushed right back into the intake manifold. When that happens a few things occur. The first is that whatever particulate is in the exhaust is being re-introduced to the engine. The second thing is the turbo is “shifted into high gear” and the boost of 30 PSI max now goes up to about 50 PSI. That extra boost is essential because while the exhaust being introduced is nearly devoid of oxygen, the added boost compensates for that. At the same time additional fuel is introduced so when the EGR functions it does it seamlessly so you are not aware of all that is happening which is primarily to reduce NOX from the exhaust.
I cannot speak for anyone else but I can speak for my EGR coach that not only has the EGR feature not functioning, I also plugged the line going into the intake manifold from the exhaust so even the slight leakage of exhaust past the EGR valve is blocked. A couple of things have happened. First my mileage went from an annual 5.9 MPG to its current 6.5 MPG. The increase in mileage initially jumped .2 to .3 MPG, but gradually got better stabilizing at the .6 MPG improvement.
In addition my oil started staying cleaner longer after an oil change. We all can relate to how fast our fresh oil change gets black. But I started noticing the oil was remaining a golden color longer and longer. I know the color is subjective and I cannot measure the shift from gold to black, but it is still an amber color on the dip stick at 2500 miles after the oil change. I can only conclude that once the exhaust was blocked from entering the cylinders the engine started to clean itself up and the particulate or soot that was being introduced worked its way out of the engine.
-
Don’t you guys remember when Catalinc converters were added to cars to “clean up emissions” back in the 60’s?
Taking them off was “illegal” but almost everyone did so. Why? The cars ran better .. longer.. and with fewer mechanical problems.
KISS.. keep it simple stupid! Sometimes less is more.
-
I agree with KISS. I have made changes to previous vehicles and always had positive results. We have the Ugly fix and I’m not convinced we have experienced any benefit. The fuel mileage has not changed and the oil is consistently dirty. But I will say that we have had to replace a VPod and wonder if there might be some correlation in one causing the other. Because we are still getting the same turbo vane error from DDEC.
I am also interested in the feedback on this subject.
Jim
-
Correct me if I’am wrong… if you have codes the ugly fix is not working.
.
-
Jim, your coach may have been set up like mine was in which your DDEC was programmed so the default was that the EGR would function regardless of altitude.
If the Ugly Fix is working you will see a mileage benefit, and if you can do a test run with a reader attached you can see the turbo boost never exceeds 30 PSI. With the EGR functioning your turbo boost gauge will not reflect the actual boost, but it will reach about 50 PSI.
-
Jon,
Is there a way to disable EGR if it does not respond to the Ugly fix?
-
Yes, but you cannot do it yourself.
This is illegal and I cannot suggest you do it, but if you want to disable the EGR you have to have someone with the ability to change settings inside the ECM so the EGR operating range is reset.
Specifically if the EGR is set to come on at 3200 RPM, and go off at 3400 RPM it is unlikely you will be driving your coach in that RPM range so in essence the EGR has been disabled.
What is more likely is to have a Detroit dealer reset your defaults if they are set so the EGR comes on regardless of altitude. My coach was set for no altitude limits, so it was reset so the EGR would not operate above 11,000 feet above sea level. The justification for changing the default is when the EGR operates above 11,000 feet is there is a severe loss of power. Since I spend a lot of time driving around Pikes Peak with my bus my request to provide more power at altitude was not unreasonable. With the default changed then the Ugly Fix works.
-
Jon,
How is the drive up that narrow road to the top of Pikes Peak in your bus? lol I suspect Di, does not accompany you on that journey.
-
It’s a little slow, but the bus sure performs well with the EGR fixed to not kick in above 11,000.
True story that Jim and Chris can confirm: Di hates heights. We did not realize how much until we drove up to the top of Pikes Peak about 25 years ago. The higher we got the tighter she grabbed onto the grab bar on the dash of a Dodge Raider (Mitsubishi Montero). When we got to the top she refused to get out and she did not release her grip on the grab bar. The trip down was worse than going up because she was now looking down and a lot of the drop offs were on her side of the road.
Knowing that when we visited Jim and Chris a few years back we were invited for a ride up a mountain. Knowing Di’s response I wasn’t exactly forthcoming about where we were going to ride. Big mistake.
But we got to the top and made it all the way down without incident but Di was not a happy camper. If we ever went up in the bus it will be to celebrate Hell freezing over.
-
Jon,
Thank you you for the response and that’s quite a story to go along with it.
PS: Only 15 more days till this years run to the top.
Jim
Log in to reply.