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Changing To Hub Piloted Wheels From Lug Piloted
What modifications are required to install hub piloted wheels on a coach
that is currently equipped with lug piloted wheels?? I’ve seen
really old coaches that have been updated with hub piloted wheels and I was told that the only thing that is required is
changing the lug studs to hub piloted style. Even though it’s a lot of
work to change lug studs that just seems too simple. Anybody done this??Thanks,
Ken -
22 Replies
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Ken,that is too simple you need to check and make sure they manufacture a hub piloted wheel that the bolt circle and the hub center is the same as your they come in all different flavors.
We had to buy new hubs for the front and tag on Kevins 91 model we couldn’t find Alcoas with the right patten and center circle it was easy for rear
People scare me when they just change the studs and use the same wheels from a stud piloted on the hub piloted not the way I would do it but you see it done
good luck
Clifford
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Thanks Clifford, that’s about what I thought. I work in the the
automotive industry and I understand the purpose of hub piloted wheels is to
center the wheels on the hub, so the wheel center fit to the hub is critical. I’ll keep what I have, at least for now.Ken
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All that was necessary on my front (and I assume tag although I have not changed the tag wheels) was changing the studs. I’m speaking of my 1999 chassis and the hubs supplied had the centering shoulders; I’m not certain that would be the case on earlier production vehicles such as yours. I currently have the hub piloted front wheels with 365’s, stud piloted oem 9″ wheels on tag with 315’s and stud piloted super single wheels on drive with 455’s.
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Joel,
If I may ask, what’s the cost of switching to super singles?
Thanks,
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The paperwork is in the coach but, near as I can recall, it was in the neighborhood of $3000-3500 incl tires.
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Joel,
That’s better than I expected. When it comes to tire replacement time I wonder how many even consider the super singles. For high milegae drivers they should realize better fuel economy.
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Not too much in fuel, but the real reason most trucks use them is for the weight reduction. Biggest downside is availability if you have a failure on the road. Not many places have them in stock, or only stock at certain locations. Other problem is you are done where it fails. No limping it in someplace.
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I have been told by several people I could not put 365’s on the front. Mine is a 98, is there some difference between a 98 and a 99.
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Mark,
After doing a little research you are right about weight savings. Michelin claims 4%+ fuel savings on a truck that has both dual axles converted. The DoT or EPA, I forget which, claims savings can be as high as 10%. it seems like availability is improving all of time. And the price is less than duals.
As side note, some trucking companies are now ordering their trucks with only one drive axle to save weight, reduce cost, and improve mileage.
Someone reported that Prevost supplies coaches with factory super singles with axles of a different width. Hat’s contrary to what I was told at Prevost-Ft Worth. A tech there said a factory dual equipped coach could run the optional super singles.
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Charles,
Unless you have slides what’s driving you to consider 365s? As I recall, my coach is still well below the maximum weight rating of the 315s. If no one has the answer, just dump your bags and measure available clearance with the wheel turned far right and left and compare the results to the increased tire height and width and any change in offset the new wheel will have. Make sure you measure both driver’s and passenger’s side, the clearances may be different. I went through this on my last plastic coach. Many told me I couldn’t go from 295s to 315s on the front, they were wrong. BTW, some will say a change in tire height will affect your ABS system. This too is incorrect. ABS works on a per axle basis.
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Hey Gil,
The tire charts call for me to run between 110 and 115 in the front with the 315’s. With the 365’s it calls for me to run about 90 pounds. This would result in a smother and quieter ride especially on concrete highways. With a 115 pounds in the front, it really beats the exspansion joints pretty hard and loud.
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Charles,
It looks like we are in the same 16K front axle weight.
The 365 is nearly the same height 42.5″ versus the 315 at 42.3″ So, I wouldn’t expect any problem here as you only require 1/2 that difference in additial wheel well clearance.
Where you might have an issue is width, but that too seems remote. The tire is 1.8″ wider at 14.3″ versis 12.5″ and the rim is 1.5″ wider at 10.5″. Assuming the 10.5″ wheel has the same offset, you would need half the increased width in both left and right directions for clearance. We’re only talking less than an inch. I haven’t been under my coach in a while, but would concentrate on the width dimensions closest to the wheel and front suspension components.
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First: 365’s on front. At the time I installed mine, the only wheel available from Alcoa was hub piloted. My hubs were equipped with shoulders so the only thing changed were studs; easy. I do not know when front hubs began to be supplied with the shoulder or if alcoa now supplys the proper size wheel in stud centric (I doubt it because it’s being phased out). If you don’t have shoulders on your existing ft hubs, I imagine you would have to replace them to go with the new wheels. Clearance wise, it’s a bit of a struggle to get them on and off with the hard fiberglass wheel trims and a little of the blown on sound insulation material was rubbed off in the 1st 1000 or so miles. They were going to try to trim but I told them not to worry about it, I would put up with a little noise. CONS: higher price tires, new wheels (maybe hubs) reqd, PROS: possibly longer wear, MUCH SOFTER RIDE DUE TO LOWER AIR PRESSURES TO MAINTAIN THE SAME WEIGHT RATING. Huge difference on my coach.
Second: 455 super singles. I can give you the full enchilada disclosure and recommendations if desired. My reason for changing was a high rate of wheel seal failure and I opened the brake drum/wheel seal area to open air flow for cooling purposes. I’ve only changed one seal since the wheel installation but I haven’t driven enough miles to have a verdict. For normal use, I’m not certain I’d bother, but THEY SAY better fuel economy and 1 super single IS cheaper than 2/315’s. I picked XTE tires (which were recommended by Michelin as smooth and quiet) but they aren’t lasting. I’ll probably have to replace with a deeper treaded model; not sure about price then.
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I was once told by a heavy truck tire shop that stud piloted wheels will be more accurately centered than hub piloted wheels. In fact he showed me some centering lugs they used on hub piloted wheels to center them. Basically these devices would be installed on a few lugs evenly around the wheel (three of them I think). Then the lug nugs would be installed on the remaining studs after which these helpers would be removed and the lugs put on these studs.
Truth or Folklore?
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We are not professional test drivers and despite what a lot of us might think I am pretty sure there are few among us that can tell without looking what type of front end we have, or what size tires we have from a normal drive down the interstate. This applies to me for sure.
My 97 had a solid axle and 315 tires. My 06 has IFS and 365 tires. I cannot say that despite hundreds of thousands of solid axle miles I was able to discern the 06 had the IFS except for the noticeably tighter turn radius. Keep me on the interstate and there is no way I can pick one over the other.
Ditto with the ride on the 365 tires compared to the 315 tires. In fact if anything the 365 tires have a “ringing” sound going over expansion joints not noticed with the 315 tires. They both clunk going over that type bump. I firmly believe that if I had 315 tires and I swapped for 365 tires I would notice an immediate change, but it would be less likely to be due to pressures, but more likely due to the fact new tires always ride softer, smoother, and less harsh than older tires they replace.
What I do know for sure is that my previous 2 coaches drove very well. They tracked nicely and I wasn’t chasing the wheel trying to keep it in my lane. But I did have to correct when me and another similar sized vehicle were passing one another in that I had to hold a little pressure towards the vehicle along side of me until the passing vehicle’s nose got ahead and then I could relax the pressure on the steering wheel. Without that slight steering input I would drift slightly. I don’t know for sure if it is the 365 tires or the additional axle weight, but the current bus tracks better with little or no steering inputs. My guess is the tires but I am not qualified to say that for sure.
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