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Buying a Prevost
My current coach, a 2001 Monaco Exec, is aging and I may have the opportunity fairly soon to buy a Prevost conversion, the coach of my dreams.
I’ve been to Millennium in Sanford, FL and sales dude Chris spent many hours taking me through their factory. It’s impressive and owner Nelson Figueroa puts a lot of effort into systems engineering in the Millennium Coach.
Parliament in Clearwater, FL was on a different scale and they are emerging from bankrupcy.
At the moment I’ve settled on Liberty in Stuart, FL. Love the interior design, engineering and everything about these ‘Elegant Ladies.’
So the question from a naif like me is the negotiating process. I may be able to afford a new coach but hate to take the depreciation financial bath in the first year. Obviously this means negotiating the selling price down from the git-go.
Liberty seems to be $200,000 more than Marathon, Millennium and others in the MSRP. So where would you start the negatiations on a $2.2m coach?
When I bought the Monaco four years ago I knew it had been on the dealer’s lot for over a year and that they wanted it gone. So I offered them a figure about %15 less than they were asking and they took it immediately. Possibly I should have gone in lower.
In any event, I’d appreciate any thoughts on the buying process and not necessarily on a new Prevost. The same dealer has older ‘Ladies’ at decent prices.
Many thanks!
Tom
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41 Replies
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Welcome to PC. One of the hardest things to advise anyone is a fair price for a coach. There are so many factors that affect what someone pays, so many outside influences, and so many changes to the market that you just have to do the best job you can in determining what you are willing to pay.
In days gone buy when converters could sell coaches from inventory and buyers had large selections it was clearly a buyer’s market. A lot of converters failed when the economy went through the “recession” and those that survived changed their business model so they never got caught in the trap they were in a few years ago. Now that the economy seems to be getting healthy, it appears there might be more buyers than available coaches so the market might now be a seller’s market. Few if any have available inventory.
What you buy affects the price also. If you are ordering a coach, just adding or deleting a few features can have a substantial impact on the price. Going with a complex paint design, or opting for some interior materials can quickly have a six figure swing in price.
Lastly, if you are working a trade into the equation compared to a clean deal the price is going to be affected. Often a converter builds some cushion into the asking price so they can over value a trade so as not to piss off a buyer who has an unrealisticly high opinion of the value of the trade.
You are still in control to an extent. Nobody will force you to buy their product so if you feel the negotiated price is too high be prepared to walk. It will not hurt in the competitive market of Prevost Conversion sales to get comparitive prices so you learn what it really costs to buy a coach. The difficulty you as a buyer will have is unlike buying a Chevy you don’t have dealers competing to sell the exact same product, so if you do some comparitive shopping you have to make the mental adjustment to determine how much value you place on the features you want or like.
Here is the problem we all have. The market for Prevost coaches is small. So small there is no way to compare apples and apples. You cannot directly compare any of the conversions you cited because they are all different from one another. Then to further confuse the issue is the human factor. Nobody wants to publicly talk about prices. Every buyer wants to feel they bought the coach at a rock bottom price and they will let others know they bought their coach cheap. There might be a little fudge factor involved in expressing how cheap they bought their coach.
The other side of the coin is the seller. They want to make their target profit margins so it doesn’t do them justice to allow the marketplace to think they are selling $2.2 million dollar coaches for $1.5 million, so they would like everyone to believe they might take a few thousand off the asking price, but that is as low as they can go. Somewhere in the middle is reality, but none of us know what that is. Only the people directly involved have that information.
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Don’t do it! The costs are off the chart, the problems are endless (search air leaks), the service locations are extremely limited and the resale value drops faster than the stock market in 2000!
OK, I love my bus and I will likely not buy anything else if I ever replace this one, but the reality is that these things are extremely expensive to own and operate and you just have to be willing to bite the bullet in order live in this kind of comfort.
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OMG, a Monaco owner seriously thinking of buying a new Prevost. It’s deja vu all over again! Maybe another chance for everyone to be nice to a guy who is just looking for information? I hope so.
Tom, good luck with your search. There are so many knowlegable folks who post here there are few questions that won’t be answered accurately. Just be aware that some folks seem to get riled up by comparisons between Prevost conversions and anything else.
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“Just be aware that some folks seem to get riled up by comparisons between Prevost conversions and anything else.”
Is there anything else???????????
Just kidding folks.
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Wecome Tom, you found the right website to gain information about Prevosts. You can’t go wrong with Liberty, of course I’m a little bias. Can’t give you any guidance for making offers. If you find the bus that you like, just make your best deal and enjoy the ride. There is NO comparison between mass produced fiberglass coaches and a Prevost.
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Two part comment:
First is an attempt to explain why some of the high end Monaco owners, like myself, are not particularly fond of being lumped in to the generic group of “plastic coach owners”. Years ago, Monaco bought the OTR commercial Chrysler bus chassis builder Roadmaster. The Dynasty, Executive, and Signature models use this chassis and while it has not been improved over the years to the extent that the Prevost chassis of the same era has been improved, it still has some desirable features and is know to perform better than many RV chassis.
For the record, the Roadmaster “S” chassis has ten shocks and ten airbags, mounted to the extreme outboard position, providing very good handling (again, as compared to peer non-Prevost chassis). These tag axle coaches have a reputation of good handling at the expense of an overly soft ride. In addition, these upper tier Monaco models are not a box bolted to a truck frame. The framing of the bus chassis is extended, just like the Prevost shell, in a semi-monocoque design. These upper tier coaches benefit from similar stiffness as the Prevost shell enjoys. This semi-monocoque framing is all steel, not aluminum.
All that said, and having owned both a Dynasty and a Signature, I too am interested in the “next step” – Prevost ownership. And no, I can not buy 4 or more of my current coach for the price of a Prevost conversion. The list price of my 2006 Signature was right at $750,000. Yes, I could buy two, but three would be a stretch. My point is that other than the excellent Prevost chassis and the drivability that come with it, there are very few features a Prevost conversion offers that my fully featured Signature does not have. I truly expect that the quality of construction of a Prevost conversion exceeds the “well constructed” Monaco product.
OK, I’m done defending the upper tier Monaco’s and ready to embrace the Prevost chassis and conversion quality. By quality, I don’t mean glitz and glamour or complexity that quickly becomes outdated technology. I really appreciated the engineering that has gone in to the Prevost chassis and how it has benefited from many years of commercial, high mileage use. That’s why I want one.
One thing I don’t understand is all the talk about Bentley ownership. Us Rolls-Royce owners look at Bentley owners as a curious lot. Bentley owners are in to sprited driving, rushing off the the next board meeting, where they will discuss moving production off shore. They are always in a hurry to get somewhere.
Rolls-Royce owners have already arrived…..
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Actual production year of bus chassi–not year of conversion. You can get this from serial # not uncommom for converter to use several year old chassi. In 2010 at Sanford there was a new 2008 Featherlite/ Vantare XLII double slide coach I looked at priced at 1,595,0000 The salesman Eric wrote dowwn Cash price on his business card at 920,0000 Please remember things we a lot worse then. I followed that coach and it finally sold at 640,0000 It is a Beautiful work of art. My one and only hands on experience. And concern of the practice of selling a coach as the year of conversion not year of manfacture of bus. Things are changing quickly in emission side rite now. Would be my questions…Last time I checked the price of a conversion shell from Prevost was betwee 450 and 550. When it gets to it your WOW factor and their I can live with this price will meet somewhere.. I f the Wow! isn’t there..Price really doesn’t matter. Game on… Bob PS Eric(salesman called back later with lower figure)..
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Les, great post.
I owned a 42-foot tag axle 2008 Beaver Contessa with quad slides. It too was built on the Roadmaster 10RR chassis and that coach did ride very well. At less than 20,000 miles I thought it to be more noisey than my 100,000 mile 15 year old Country Coach conversion. Much of this quiter ride I attribute to both Prevost and Country coach. Afterall, they both could contribute to rattles. I shouldn’t discount the fact that a coach with 4 slides is very likely to be more noisey than one without any slides.
My move was really driven by two things. First, and foremost, was my lack of confidence in Caterpillar. Many may know that the 2007 EPA standards drove CAT out of the over-the-road market. With a trip planned to Alaska, other CAT owners convinced me that I was taking a risk that might disrupt months of planned enjoyment. The other thing that drove me to Prevost conversions rather than a traditional coach was perception that the Prevost chassis and Detroit power plant were both near bullet-proof and should afford me years of reliable service. So far that perception has been reality.
As for pricing, there are several factors to consider. When buying a built to your specs conversion I would suggest the converter shouldn’t even bring up the meaningless list price. It should be a long discussion on your wants, their ability to deliver, and finally an agreed value. If the converter is busy, expect to pay more. If you or wife are sitting at the table with gaga eyes, expect to pay more as you have already shown cards.
If you are willing to accept a completed spec coach or one on the line the original buyer has pulled out of, expect to get a better deal. Here the discussion will start with the meaningless list price. The sell price will be influenced by the number of units the converter is sitting on and their cost of floorplan. You could get a much better deal than going down the built to your specs route.
If you don’t mind a nearly new used unit you should drive away with the best value given the biggest hit on value has already occured. This should also result in driving away with all infant mortality issues and other new product repairs done. The only concern I’d have on buying a nearly new used coach is that not many were built so the inventory is low. That limits your ability to get the “right” coach for you. More import with respect to price is that the prices will be higher than expected due to limited availability.
Enjoy your shopping journey and don’t get stuck in over analyzing this stuff. All converters make good products and all converters do things that some of us don’t care for. The net-net is regardless of your chosen converter, I think you will be just as happy as you would have been with another converter. FWIW, I’m not a fan of what I consider needless automation and a converter that does these things to muscle flex their “I’m better than you”. Obviously, this is my opinion and one not shared by most converters.
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Hey Les, you made reference to the bus chassis on the Signature. Please be advised there is only ONE bus, Prevost.:)
Good post.
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Enjoyed your post Les…
Based on picture your at a show. Your attire reverse of RR paint, nice touch.
The ribbons mean ?
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“Please be advised that there is only ONE bus, Prevost”
Tom, I beg to differ…
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MCI custom coach build out,
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In the picture I was waiting on the results of the Rolls-Royce Owner’s Club (RROC) 2004 annual car show, held in conjunction with the Pebble Beach, Monterey week long festivities. 2004 was the centennial for Rolls-Royce and they were the featured marque.
I was fortunate to win the class and additional ribbons and awards showed up shortly after the picture was taken. That car is a 1962 Silver Cloud II
In full disclosure, I have been a judge for the RROC for 12 years, retiring last year. Of course I could not be a judge in 2004 but knowing what the judging team looks for made the four year long restoration more effective.
I currently have a 1950 Silver Wraith under restoration and recently sold a 2000 Silver Seraph – way too modern of a ultra-luxury car for me…
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tom G, just a quick note about your statement about Parliament coming out of bancruptcy.
I do believe this is very old information. Parliament was sold about 1 year ago and subsequently absorbed Coachworx when tMike Bell, Rick May and Ben Cummings accepted a buyout offer from the new owner of Parliament.
granted, this is not a 5 Star facility. Everything is older and tired. But, the new owner has put a lot of money into improving everything and this place is humming. they are even waiting to get their hands onto a new Prevost shell to restart production.
so, while a visit to Millennium may very well be impressive, you also pay for that glitz etc.
I do usually prefer to deal with the little guy on the block and big fancy showrooms do not impress me.
The important thing is, the after sale follow-up and service.
On the service side, I cannot complain. I have been coming here for over 2 years now. I have been treated well and my service needs were taken care of and the final bill was reasonable. I do highly recommend Parliament/Coachworks because I feel comfortable here.
Cheers,
Ronald
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2.2 = 1.8 real money
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