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Silverado 3500 Toad
I am new to the Prevost adventure, having sold the 34′ Airstream in order to salvage my marriage, and purchased a 2001 Liberty as a “replacement upgrade”. I am on the very low end of the learning curve with respect to everything Prevost related and have acquired some valuable and helpful information here in the recent past by viewing previous posts on the various forums. We are presently preparing to escape the frozen wastelands of Minnesota for warmer destinations and I am planning on using my 2012 Silverado 3500 diesel as a toad. Any downsides besides the curb weight of 7700 pounds? I was not interested in purchasing a separate vehicle for a number of reasons. I am planning on a Roadmaster All Terrain towbar and an Air Force 1 braking device. Any suggestions on the brake light issue for the toad? In reading the former threads on the forum it appears as though a 3 to 2 wire converter will be required. Although this is a 2001 conversion(2000 chassis) it has low miles on it and does not appear to have pulled a toad before as I have been unable to even locate a connector plug near the rear bumper. Do Liberty conversions usually come pre-wired for towing? I have gone over the systems manual and have been unable to locate any information on the subject of wiring the coach for towing.
I apologize in advance for my ignorance relative to the above subject matter.
Don & Aretta Rice
Stillwater, MN
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19 Replies
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Other than being heavy you likely will not have any problem with the bus pulling the 3500.
But….and this is a big but, I almost believe your 3500 has power brakes that are hydraulically assisted from the power steering pump. If that is the case you are not going to get much braking force from the AF-1. They will disagree with me, but if you wish to verify for yourself find a hill, shut off the engine, pump the brakes to rid the 3500 of residual brake assist pressure and let it roll. See how much force you need to even begin to slow the vehicle. Be prepared to step on the emergency brake and to re-start the engine because you might not be able to generate enough force with your muscles.
Now look at where and how the brake application air cylinder is going to be located and mounted on your 3500. Then look at the size of the cylinder AF-1 provides.
I tow a 6700 pound Hummer and so far I am satisfied with the Roadmaster Brakemaster as the best alternative to supplemental braking on a hydraulically boosted vehicle brake because the force is applied at the bottom of the pedal for maximum mechanical advantage and the cylinder is a more generous size.
I’m not trying to sell you the Roadmaster braking, but to get you to understand that whatever you select it needs to at least have the force of your leg muscles to even begin to assist your stopping force. FWIW the stopping ability of our coaches is lousy. We take far more than double the distance to stop than the average car at the same speeds. We don’t need anything to make that worse.
Your Liberty has a connector. Lift the stainless flap to the left of the hitch and you will see the plug. I think there is a switch on the electrical assembly for the toad lights that allows you to select whether the stop and turn have the same bulb or separate bulbs. The control for the toad lights is to the left of the big Prevost electric box.
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Jon,
I will check the area you suggested for the connector plug and I will also do the braking test with my truck and explore the exact type of braking system it has.
Thank you very much for the information,
Don
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Don does your handle stand for 503th Parachute infantry regiment?
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You may not like the front
tire wear on your pickup when towing it.
We started off towing an 8300-pound Dodge 4×4. We changed to a smaller toad, (Ford Explorer), because the front tires
on the Dodge were wearing more and faster than we wanted to accept.We have noticed four
benefits from going to a smaller toad:- Much less front tire wear. The wear is hardly noticeable.
- Much better toad braking. The braking unit is actually capable of
applying noticeable braking force. - The smaller toad stays within the rear wheel
tracks of the coach. This means I
don’t have to swing as wide on corners.
A nice unintended benefit.
4. The
coach taillights and third brake lights are fully visible to traffic. -
Hello Don and Aretta: Glad to hear yall are still kicking. You had better hurry to get out of the deep Freezer, or you may be stuck in a snow bank. May you see and feel 75 degrees in January!!
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Greg,
Yes it does…….I spent my entire enlistment following jump school with the 503rdPIR as part (the dumb, ground pounding part) of the 173rd Airborne Brigade. My wife will attest to the fact that I am no smarter today than I was back then!
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Mike,
I appreciate your thoughts and I may very well change things around after some experience towing the Silverado. But for this year I’m determined to not invest in a smaller toad plus I like versatility of the bigger truck, even though I may never put it to good use.
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Roger,
Still kicking inspite of all the layers of clothing up here. We planned on being on the road right after New Years but I had too many other things that needed tending to. I have finally gotten around to getting the Prevost on the top of my list of things to do. Unfortunately, my lack of knowledge in many areas is slowing my progress considerably. I am in need of more tutorials beginning with Prevost 101 I guess!
Don
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I want to make one point very clear. I don’t think the Air Force One is the best answer for a vehicle that uses hydraulic boost via the power steering pump for brakes, but it is certainly an excellent supplemental braking system for vehicles that have vaccuum assisted power brakes.
I should have made that clear in the first post I made above.
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Don, concerning tire wear when pulling your truck, please consider this:
If the angle of the “tow bar” is not very close to level when towing (coach in travel mode), then the pulling and braking force will be trying to lift up or push down the truck away from its “neutral” position. That will lead to accelerated tire wear.
Also, on a panic stop, the angle of the tow bar will either try to push the truck under the coach or above the rear bumper area. This will be especially aggravated if the auxiliary braking system on the truck is not doing its job adequately.
Ideally, you want to coach brakes to stop the coach and the truck’s auxiliary braking system to stop the truck.
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Les’s comment should start to wave some flags.
I have had a few of our members take shots at my choice of tow bar. I use a Roadmaster All Terrain that is toad mounted and when unfolded it drops over the ball on the hitch on the coach.
At rallies I am almost the only one who uses that type towing method with the vast majority using the tow bar that slides into the receiver on the coach and then connects to brackets or some form of nearly invisible attach point on the toad. I understand when the toad is unhitched it looks a whole lot better than having a folding tow bar sticking on the front on a nice toad. The preferred method now is to leave the tow bar on the back of the coach.
But my reason is simple. As Les points out, as long as we have been towing the tow bar manufacturers have made it a point to insist the tow bar is to be level when the toad is hitched. That might be possible sometimes, but different toads have different heights where the tow bar attaches, so in a lot of instances the bar is pointing up or down and as Les stated that leads to problems,
I create a greater problem for myself because I am about to have 3 possible toads, all of which are set for towing. They range from my 50 Ford to my H2 Hummer to my Ram 2500 pickup. Not a single one is going to match another in height so to keep the tow bar level I am using and adjustable hitch.
I admit the folding tow bar can look ugly on a toad (the Hummer is ugly without the tow bar so that doesn’t matter) but I think the tow bar that is stuck on the rear of a great looking coach makes the coach look ugly so the way to go is whatever makes you comfortable. I’m going to stick with keeping my tow bars level.
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Jon,
OK, wait just a minute. If I’m reading your last post correctly, which on New Year’s Day there could be a problem there, you will be leaving an ugly tow bar hanging off the front of your beautifully restored 1950 Ford? Surely Di won’t be seen in such an ungainly equipped vehicle. In the pictures I have not been able to see any accommodation for “hiding” the tow bar behind the bumper/grille.
So will you be using the same tow bar but just having to remove it while cruising around the local streets? Inquiring minds would like to know.
We need current photos … please!
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Will my friend, I am not affected by a night of partying unless you consider a single small Bourbon on ice and a 9:30 bed time having an impact on me.
The Ford will have the original style Roadmaster folding tow bar, modified to have the tubes that slide into the receivers permanently welded to match the hidden receivers on the car. The plugs for lights and braking are also hidden, but everything is easy to unhook in a few minutes. If we are staying a while as soon as the car is unhitched the cables, wiring and tow bar will be disconnected and put in the trunk.
Now the back of the bus will be free of any ugly folding tow bar, as will the Ford. People will pay to see the beauty.
Having said that the H2 now has it’s tow bar in place for our upcoming trip and that tow bar will remain attached to the Hummer until we return home. That vehicle is so ugly it doesn’t matter if it has a tow bar grafted to the front although when we are home and there are.no upcoming trips it is usually taken off.
I am in the process of adding towing capability to our Ram 2500. I have the base plate welded and installed on the front. It has the plug for lights and the fitting for brakes in place on the base plate which is removeable but I will leave on permanently. It connects to the tow loops and unless you look for it it is not real noticeable. That one is going to have the tow bar that hangs on the back of the coach when not in use because at 7600 pounds I will use the 10,000 pound Roadmaster.
Three vehicles available for towing, three different folding tow bars, and each having a different approach to how they look and how they are installed. The two big vehicles are going to use the Brakemaster for braking because coincidently both use the power steering pump for brake boost. I am not sure if I will add supplemental braking on the Ford because its weight is under 3000 pounds.
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Hey Gramps….how in God’s name do you keep track of all that stuff ? I can’t keep track of more tha two pair of shoes. Geo. Or a “n” !
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Geo……..I can keep track of some things easily, especially the mechanical stuff. But I can’t remember how to reset my clock in the bus without looking up the directions. Now if I could only find where I put them I could set it back to EST instead of EDT.
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