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Diesel Particulate Filter artical
Here is a interesting article on how Diesel Particulate filters work (I.E. choke our engines)
https://www.knowyourparts.com/technical-resources/diesel-engines/diesel-particulate-filter/
2000 Featherlite H3-45
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee
Leesburg, FL -
15 Replies
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Let me see if I fully understand where this is heading…………..
First we get engines that are forced to breathe their own exhaust, using EGR, something that also causes the loss of fuel efficiency.
Then the engines or their exhaust system have the pleasure of ingesting panther piss, otherwise known as DEF.
To be sure the exhaust leaving the coach is clean there is a particulate filter that removes anything left in the exhaust, but which can be choked under certain conditions.
Let’s not ignore that as the coaches are saddled with these wonderful systems and devices, the coach engine controls are designed to disable the coach if any of these complex devices malfunct ( a technical term ).
I think I understand it. We are going to keep the air we breathe clean by continuing to add systems and complexity until the coaches will just not run, eliminating the need for further emissions controls.
In anticipation of comments about us going to battery powered buses, try to imagine that the power plants producing the electric to charge the batteries are going to be subject to a similar range of emissions controls so at some point, not only will they shut down, but we can also expect farting cows will also be subject to similar government mandated emission controls
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This is a cleaner fuel, just have to find a way to get the Compressed Natural Gas storage tanks on board and positioned so as not to reduce storage much. Clean burning, cheap fuel, no need to any pollution abatement equipment. MB
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I have no idea how much CNG it takes and engine the size of a S60 to go a mile, but would anyone have an idea of what size storage vessel it would take on a Prevost to go a few hundred miles to the next fueling station.
Also what kind of pressures would be created in the tank of a CNG vehicle.
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I agree natural gas would be a great alternative, but so would a bay full of farting cows or the gas produced by the local landfill.
This is not about emissions, it is about reverting society to one that lives in caves and eats roots and twigs.
I really miss my 8V92 that could pour thick black smoke into the booth when the toll takers were mean or disrespectful.
2000 Featherlite H3-45
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee
Leesburg, FL -
So Jon:
Is it safe to say you will not be running out to buy a coach with EGR and DEF ?
LOL
1999 XLV X-6872, liberty #440 -
Chuck you clearly have the ability to predict the future.
In fact, probably because of old age and the onset of dementia if we find ourselves having to replace one of our vehicles, I will be doing my shopping in Hemmings.
I think we have gone Nucking Futs in this country. We are responsible for about 15% of the world’s greenhouse gases and yet we are being saddled with so many expensive systems and devices meant to reduce them, and despite all we have done and are doing we are still being criticised for not doing enough, while counties we do trade with are stealing jobs and doing little or nothing to address the environmental messes they have.
If we are really serious about clean air and the environment I have a simple, immediate solution. Do not allow a single product into this country unless it has been produced in a country that enforces the exact same environmental standards, workplace safety standards, and employee protections.
At that point I would be willing to consider a coach and vehicles with more stringent emission standards than the ones I own.
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More goods are sold in this country that are produce by one of the worlds worst polluters and no work place standards enforcement.
CHINA
The New Deal Group never mentions the ones producing the most pollution
They are more concerned with removing plastic straws
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Roll That Coal !!!!!!!! Nuff said .
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IMHO, most Americans brought this on themselves. Compared to the 1950’s the average house is twice as big. The average family is half as big. So we each have 4X the amount of space, and yet … the self store industry is worth billions. Why, because everyone want to buy as much as possible of the cheapest crap from China at Wally Word. Then spend every Saturday selling used once crap at yard sales to pay for the storage unit. Bitching all the time about dead downtown small biz and no manufacturing jobs.
At least my bus created good manufacturing jobs in Quebec City and Oregon, and keeps well paid mechanics in Ephrata employed!
Just saying 😉
P.S. Scientists are working on cows that fart less.
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Good morning Buddy! Great to hear from you again.
Michael from Green Bay is correct. Compressed natural gas (CNG) is a much better, cleaner fuel that gasoline or diesel in many respects but it does have its drawbacks.
The tanks are typically up to 3,600PSI when full. I don’t know about Buddy’s couple of hundred miles example, but to get a coach a reasonable distance on CNG I suspect the tanks would take up an entire bay in a coach and the the range would be no where near the 1,600 miles I enjoy with our 208 gallon diesel tank.
Its my understand that the engines that run strictly on CNG don’t or can’t produce the HP and Torque of our S-60’s. Engine of that capacity run on a combination of CNG and diesel.
But for many applications and missions, CNG is almost the perfect fuel. Its sad there aren’t more operators using CNG, but I think its getting bigger and bigger every day.
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UPS is using natural gas for fuel. A good friend is a driver of the over the road semis and his concern is available range. Most of the time he has ample fuel for his run. But if he gets into a traffic jam or unpassable snow conditions if his route takes him over the Smokies he has a serious concern about running out of fuel.
In the summer it is an inconvenience if he gets in a traffic jam such as might be caused if the road is shut down as a result of an accident, but in the winter when he has to run the engine to stay warm he has a serious concern and said he has come very close to being out of fuel.
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The engines do not put out the same hp/torque as ours do and the drivers I have talked to don’t like the lack of performance. Most of what I see around here are the petroleum haulers for stations that also have CNG. Since they run empty 50% of the time, and just out and right back, the lack of range doesn’t seem to matter to them.
I don’t see it as a viable alternative to good old dino fuel. I want the range and power I have now, and there is no way to get that with CNG.
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If I were King, every delivery vehicle that returns home to the terminal at night (US Postal trucks, UPS,FedEx, Prime Delivery, grocery delivery, etc. would be converted to CNG. They could be refilled every night, be ready in the morning for work and reduce air pollution considerably reducing the need to have the D60’s in the Prevost to have all the pollution crap for the travel that is taken in private coaches. If the Greenies reallly want to have an impact on improving air quality, forget the battery hox with Tesla’s and encourage more CNG, we are the Saudi Arabia of natural gas. Look at the NOX data and CNG really is the perfect fuel for 75% of all travel vehicles MB Opps too much coffee this morning.
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Mark from Duluth is correct about the CNG truck engines (especially the CNG only) not having the torque to pull a heavy load.
Kwik Trip based in La Crosse, WI is installing CNG pumps in its new stores and ten years announced they will NOT buy any more diesel truck. All new trucks will be dedicated CNG or CNG/Diesel combo. Their transportation manager told me that when they started to experiment the with CNG the semi drivers were very apprehensive. But after a driver spent a week in a truck and were asked about the experience almost all of them wanted a CNG truck. They said must less noise, no diesel smell, vibration greatly reduced, and their left knee and left hip was feeling much better (the CNG trucks had Allison automatics). The drivers conceded that pulling heavy loads up the grades out of La Crosse (which is in the Mississippi River Valley) was more difficult, but it wasn’t anything they couldn’t deal with given the advantages.
Michael from Green Bay would be my kind of King. Anyone with a fleet of trucks that return home every night should be shifting them to CNG. CNG is much less expensive than either gasoline or diesel. We do see more CNG powered city transit buses and delivery trucks. Hopefully when the USPS replaces all its little “mail cars”, they will be CNG. I think all the shuttle buses at the Milwaukee (MKE) airport are CNG powered.
Twenty years ago the school bus operator in my home town of Shawano Wisconsin converted his gasoline powered buses to CNG. The school district saved a ton of money and the CNG experience was much better than a gasoline or diesel one. Then he couldn’t get gasoline powered buses and went to diesel.
Why is CNG cleaner than gasoline or diesel? CNG is largely hydrogen. By product of combustion is largely water. Gasoline and diesel are carbon based. By product of combustion is largely carbon-based nasty stuff.
For our coaches, I just don’t see CNG being a near term alternative … unless Prevost goes in that direction.
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So far the thought police that are monitoring what we are allowed to say hasn’t restricted discussions about energy (yet).
From a personal perspective I don’t care what fuel powers what vehicles. We are being presented with a lot of options ranging from vehicles plugging into a power outlet, to gas to diesel to CNG, and even hydrogen.
All I ask is that nobody, including the government and environmentalists, shoves it down my throat. Every available form of energy for transportation has its strong or weak points and I hope the market is allowed to make the choice based on its wants and needs.
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