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CARB banning older 2 stroke bus conversions
If you are a California resident and have an older California registered bus conversion that was previously exempted from CARB smog checks, you will want to read this and do your own research to understand if you will be impacted. It seems a new set of CARB regulations has removed the exemption and now must submit to smog testing. There is a lot here but wanted to do a data dump for easier reference.
I’ve been researching the new CARB HD-IM or Clean Truck Check program currently phasing in 2023 through 2024. I’ve read all I can on the CARB website and spoken to several CARB licensed testers actively providing heavy vehicle pollutant testing under the long-running and still current PSIP program.
Attached are the most relevant documents that form the basis of my opinion on how this will affect bus conversions registered in California.
1) Previously exempted old two stroke buses (pre-ODB) running engines such as the classic Detriot Diesel 8V71NA and pre 1997 ODB buses could receive the notice somewhere in the second half of 2023. This notice will ask for the vehicle(s) to be registered in the HDIM database. There may be a fee, not certain.
2) Starting in 2024, all vehicles in the database will receive NST – Notice to Submit to Testing, providing owners 30 days to submit test results showing compliance with the new regulations.
3) The current PSIP program is being merged into the new Clean Truck Check program and the current J1667 snap acceleration test will still apply. In the attached PSIP table it seems to indicate we will fall into the 40% limit, the highest allowance.
4) We are likely to be subject to an annual opacity test described in #3. Current average price for PSIP test is about $95.
If this holds true then we may see our vehicles being included in the new HF-IM program, will need to do annual opacity tests but those passing will be legal on the road without any other changes.
I am sure things will change so I will date updates. May 24, 2023
NOTES – Extracts from the docs;
Which heavy-duty vehicles must comply with the regulation?
Nearly all diesel and alternative fuel heavy-duty trucks and buses with a gross vehicle weight rating over 14,000 pounds that operate in California must comply. This includes hybrid trucks and buses, commercial vehicles, privately-owned vehicles, government vehicles, and vehicles registered outside of California.Which vehicles are exempt from the regulation?
The heavy-duty vehicle types shown below are exempt from the regulation:
• Zero-emission vehicles
• Military tactical vehicles
• Emergency vehicles
• New vehicles with engines certified to the most stringent optional, NOx standard (only for the first four years of program implementation)
• Motorhomes registered outside of California
• Vehicles operating under an experimental permit
• Historical vehiclesThe smoke opacity test is the same SAE J1667 snap acceleration smoke inspection used to comply with CARB’s PSIP.
What are my responsibilities as a vehicle owner when the HD I/M regulation starts in January 2023?
First, keep your vehicles well-maintained and perform regularly scheduled preventive maintenance. If your vehicle is identified as a potential high emitter through REMD, you will receive a Notice to Submit to Testing (NST) from CARB.
Non-OBD vehicles, i.e., those that don’t meet the engine model year requirements above, are required to undergo a smoke opacity test and a visual inspection of the vehicle’s emissions control equipment, referred to as the Vehicle Emissions Control Equipment Inspection. The smoke opacity test is the same SAE J1667 snap acceleration smoke inspection used to comply with CARB’s PSIP.
Are there other vehicle owner requirements that start in 2023?
Yes. Starting in mid-2023, vehicle owners will be required to create owner accounts in CARB’s HD I/M database, verify the vehicles in their fleets, and pay the first annual compliance fee for each vehicle. The HD I/M database will incorporate vehicle data from existing CARB databases and from DMV data.Do I still need to perform my annual smoke inspections for compliance with PSIP?
If you own vehicles that are currently subject to PSIP, you still must perform your annual compliance inspections. If your vehicle is required to undergo HD I/M compliance
testing as a result of an NST, you may apply your passing HD I/M compliance test to meet the vehicle’s annual PSIP testing requirement.Related documents are located in this folder:
https://www.dropbox.com/home/CARB%20Clean%20Truck%20Check
CARB presentaton – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b19JP57qkKg
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29 Replies
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After all this jargon, what is the bottom line?
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Some old buses will be listed soon
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LOL
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Glad I left that state 17 years ago.
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Think 2 Stroke owners are toast. Mechanic Buddy of mine out of Southern Califorkia said none will pass as they will use Accelerated Idle on Opacity Test. Revving Engine up and down. Trying to get rid of them all and taking them off the road. Heck even my clean as a pin 91 XL 8V92TA would discharge a little smoke on revving it up and down. He said the Registry out of State’s not gonna work as they eventually will start checking on entry Beautiful State but nobody will want to go there anywho with the way the Idiot’s are running it into the Ground with Policy. .
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Wonder how this is going to work. On Federal Highways, ie I-xx or US-xx or roads that have Federal money in them, thru grants, etc Federal law prevails over State law. A good example are state length laws.
Plus they have a 40% opacity limit, I suspect most will pass that
Thoughts
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No need to worry, none of this will happen in our lifetime.
2000 Featherlite H3-45
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee
Leesburg, FL -
Oh for crying out loud. We have annual opacity testing in colorado. Do you actually know what 40% opacity LOOKS like?
i recently tested our 1978 Mercedes 300cd coupe with naturally aspirated 5 cyl in line non turbo diesel car. Its rated allowable opacity of 40%. After testing, tester told me car runs well at 3%. Holy cow, i said. At 3% it leaves quite soot cloud. So 40% must be a thick dense wall of a soot cloud.
One of our former busses, a 1992 XL40 converted by Beaver Coach had to do testing as well annually while we owned it between 2009-15Annually once again, it put out quite the soot cloud upon accelerated startup from stop, it passed
Colorado emissions testing is the same California.
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I’m planning on getting a J1667 opacity test done end of this month just so I know where my engine stands. I did study various PSIP tutorials on youtube that go through the certification process and shows actual opacity at different levels. The visual method is pretty reliable if conducted in the right conditions.
What I find interesting is so little interest from various bus boards about this issue. Most are CA bashers but very few actual owners in CA comment. I know there are quite a few buses that will fall under this new regulation. Is it nobody cares, failing to understand the implications, disbelief, etc?
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IMO most don’t care because it is not that big of a deal.
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Interesting perspective. Not a big deal since most older DD 2 strokes will pass 40% opacity?
I confess being ignorant about the 40% and how realistic it is to pass. Having asked on many forums, it is crickets whether this is an issue of concern or not.
Your comment that CO regulations put buses through this test and they pass is the first I’ve heard of that.
At least from what I understand, most older 2 strokes do not pass and in CA had to either get a hammer through the block or had to get DPF installed at great expense. There are different pass levels so it is unclear which ones passed without DPF and which did not.
Thanks for the info on CO. I will expend some research tokens looking there.
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Last resort, you can always register in MT or SD.
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To be accurate in Colorado, its the front range counties that the soot opacity test from Ft Collins to south of Denver. El Paso county and south have opted out. Out on the western slope, there is Grand county with-that being the city of Grand Junction
these testing center,and some are regular commercial bus and truck shops like Colorado Kenworth and Stewart Stevenson are allowed to charge up to one hour of their labor rate. They place your bus on a dyno, plug into diagnostics and run your coach in gear on the rollers, with a probe up your exhaust tail pipe
If you coach is older than 2004, testing is annual before re-registering. And yes, we have had damage to one of our past busses, by an an inexperienced tester, repair was on our nickel..4 Grand$$$
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Bumper sticker version……LEAVE CA. LOL
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Is there a pre-boost fueling adjustment on those 2-strokes? Seems like you could turn down the fueling for the test…
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